NodeBB

@katzenberger But I'm not promoting AI, all I said was that attacking each individual user of it online does nothing to save the environment and help the working class.

Again, this is not a serious conversation. Let's just drop it.

@scottjenson

@scottjenson Yes, Scott, don't you know? I love all those things.

@katzenberger

@katzenberger I can see you are not interested in having a serious conversation, and that's fine.

Enjoy the rest of your day.

@scottjenson

@katzenberger

No, really, I do want to hear your answer.

Why does some rando talking about their vibecoded app need to hear what you personally think about AI? What are you trying to achieve? How effective is it?

@scottjenson

@katzenberger Telling someone that their vibe coded calculator app got your friend fired...I mean if it actually did, I get it's personal.

But it just sounds like you're venting to a complete stranger.

And like you said, nobody has to listen to you. So why @ them then?

@scottjenson

@katzenberger

I feel like we might be having trouble staying on topic, and I apologize if I am contributing to that.

Going back to my own first message in this thread, I argued that if you see a post about a topic you don't care about, you don't have to engage with it.

If it's something that actually breaks the rules of your community, you can report it.

You said:

"It's just that nobody is obliged to listen to you"

And that is fair! If we could just ignore each other, the world would already be a much better place.

But does everything require a response? This seems to be where we mainly disagree.

You want to tell a nazi off? Yeah, sure, I guess. Still good to report them.

@scottjenson

@katzenberger

I did, it's just some dude comparing responses to him talking about "tech news, AI, and politics". Not sure how we got to discussing "fascism, pedophilia, misogyny".

Pretty huge jump.

@scottjenson

@katzenberger

Really not sure why you're arguing against points nobody made, but I already addressed that in a separate thread.

@scottjenson @Gargron

@katzenberger

Sure, if you see someone spreading hateful ideologies, have at them, no issues on my end. We need to root that stuff out from everywhere, not just social media. But this was not the topic here.

Attacking individuals who are vibecoding todo list apps one by one is going to do nothing to save the environment and help the working class. People will just stop posting about it here. And maybe that's all you care about, you just don't want to see AI discussed.

Or maybe you do more. Maybe you call your representatives and lobby for stronger environmental laws and laws protecting workers. If that's you, kudos!

@scottjenson @Gargron

@scottjenson

The only solution I can think of that I mentioned earlier is that non-moderators should not moderate non-members of their community. They can report, block, move on.

@katzenberger @Gargron

@scottjenson

"You can always spin up your own instance"

But that doesn't solve the problem, because people in your mentions criticizing you don't care about the rules of your community, they will either try to enforce rules of their own community, or what they see as rules governing all of the fediverse.

@katzenberger @Gargron

@katzenberger Or to put it differently, nobody is actively driving you away if they post about topics you are not interested in and/or in ways you don't agree with.

But by jumping into a complete stranger's mentions, you are, in fact, showing the toxic side of the fediverse and actively driving people away. Some cheer on this as a good thing. That's gatekeeping.

@scottjenson @Gargron

@katzenberger

You are equating two different things.

Scenario 1: I don't want to see person A, I will block them. They will never know I exist. I will likewise block person B, person C, heck, let me block this whole server.

But I don't have to even block anyone, I can just mind my own business.

Scenario 2: I am being told I am not posting the right way by person A. I will block them. Now by person B. I can block them too. Why are all these strangers talking to me? Why can't they mind their own business? I guess I'll just leave.

@scottjenson @Gargron

@katzenberger

>If you feel "policed", your own argument applies: block them, or block their server.

Yeah, we definitely seem to disagree. Mind you, I have not encountered this problem directly, but being constantly told how to post by complete strangers on servers I haven't even heard of doesn't sound like a fun experience.

Yeah, maybe I will block one or two people, but I can see how that can get tiring, and people just end up leaving.

I just don't think everything requires a response. People might just think a bit too highly about their opinions on here.

@scottjenson @Gargron

@ricci It really is unfortunate that we can't have more nuanced conversations around these topics. Some people are capable, and I've enjoyed engaging with those, and I have learned quite a bit.

But some people are just plain nasty. Shame.

@scottjenson

@katzenberger

"It's just that nobody is obliged to listen to you"

I think it would be great if we could all agree on this.

Don't like someone? Block them. Don't like a community? Block their server.

It's when people try to actively police members of other communities they don't belong to when things turn nasty.

I think this is something moderators need to clamp down on.

@scottjenson @Gargron

@scottjenson I guess I'm just not as attached to the idea of the fediverse as being one community that needs to follow the same rules and discuss the same topics in approved ways?

@scottjenson But of course, the fediverse does have some unique challenges, such as the federated bits poking out too much, confusing people, and, well, random people enforcing unwritten, sometimes contradictory rules across different communities.

The only way I see out of that is to stop gatekeeping the fediverse, and focusing on communities. Anyone should be able to join the fediverse, just like anyone can go on the internet.

I don't care that Meta is part of the fediverse through Threads, we can all just block them and move on.

Or if Truth Social decided to turn federation back on. Them federating means nothing. We'll block them, and move on.

@scottjenson

"people are leaving mastodon, our daily actives are going down"

Same thing has been happening to Bluesky over the past year.

https://bluefacts.app/bluesky-user-growth

From some of the anecdotes I've seen, it sounds like at least part of this is the same reason people don't stick around here: not enough activity and/or diversity (you might know Bluesky is very US-centric).

@lwriemen Very fair! There are other ways to contribute, eg.: https://codeberg.org/fediverse