Mastodon.social's continued growth as a percentage of the Fedi is (IMHO) worrying, I did a thread about this: https://social.chinwag.org/@FediThing/115492120189076969
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@ikuturso @keith @homegrown Because of this i believe, going back to the OP here we're responding on... #Mastodon instance defederating i think hurts this network over all.
I would also argue that growth overall for both Bluesky and Mastodon could increase should more people #bridge accounts between the two.
@transicorn @keith @homegrown Personally I don't disagree with that and I'd rather see bridging continue, I think even the limited Threads federation is probably more good than bad. I can see why other people with different priorities might have a different conclusion though.
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@transicorn Sorry but I already mentioned one huge difference that means Bluesky has very limited time available and I don't see decentralization as something that is just obviously going to happen. Unfortunately the incentive structure and the way Bluesky went about it continue to actively work against it decentralizing to any appreciable degree.
@ikuturso I agree with you about #Bluesky going about #decentralization wrong in many ways, but there are people spinning up #PDS instances w/ #ATProto and that's not had time to flourish yet aside from Bluesky the centralized instance.
I don't believe ATProto has a limited time available and again, we're talking about protocols and growth...
Saying ATProto is in danger because of Bluesky is like saying ActivityPub is in danger because of Mastodon Social for example. They are only parts of it
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@ikuturso I agree with you about #Bluesky going about #decentralization wrong in many ways, but there are people spinning up #PDS instances w/ #ATProto and that's not had time to flourish yet aside from Bluesky the centralized instance.
I don't believe ATProto has a limited time available and again, we're talking about protocols and growth...
Saying ATProto is in danger because of Bluesky is like saying ActivityPub is in danger because of Mastodon Social for example. They are only parts of it
@transicorn I see that comment often but protocols aren't maintained on their own. Plenty of protocols have died because there was nobody tending to them.
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@transicorn I see that comment often but protocols aren't maintained on their own. Plenty of protocols have died because there was nobody tending to them.
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@transicorn I would be much less confident on that considering how centralized it is, how much the appeal hinges on the single current use case and how little traction I've seen any of the other attempts at creating more get, how expensive it can be to maintain etc.
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@transicorn I would be much less confident on that considering how centralized it is, how much the appeal hinges on the single current use case and how little traction I've seen any of the other attempts at creating more get, how expensive it can be to maintain etc.
@ikuturso The appeal doesn't hinge on Bluesky the instance, far from it especially after recent events involving the CEO Jay Graber pissing many off.
#Blacksky is running several #PDS instances, there are others including one for #Transgender people spinning up by others...
People are becoming more aware of options there and choosing them, as that increases with additional servers the #Bluesky as an instance will certainly mean less to #ATProto beyond work developing the protocol.
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@ikuturso The appeal doesn't hinge on Bluesky the instance, far from it especially after recent events involving the CEO Jay Graber pissing many off.
#Blacksky is running several #PDS instances, there are others including one for #Transgender people spinning up by others...
People are becoming more aware of options there and choosing them, as that increases with additional servers the #Bluesky as an instance will certainly mean less to #ATProto beyond work developing the protocol.
@transicorn I'm aware of those which is part of what I was referring to with the "little traction". Over 99% of all users are on just Bluesky and I doubt many of them even know of anything else. Bluesky PBC is not really trying to make it more decentralized, they just use the supposed future possibility as an excuse. I suspect that is because they need it to stay fairly centralized to do business.
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@transicorn I'm aware of those which is part of what I was referring to with the "little traction". Over 99% of all users are on just Bluesky and I doubt many of them even know of anything else. Bluesky PBC is not really trying to make it more decentralized, they just use the supposed future possibility as an excuse. I suspect that is because they need it to stay fairly centralized to do business.
@ikuturso Those just literally are starting to accept new users widely, you could say in its infancy ActivityPub looked the same.
It's apples and oranges comparing the two in terms of what's going to happen next.
One thing i can assure you is, many of those 6 million active users there would rather use #Bluesky than #Twitter and they have zero interest in coming to #Mastodon.
I just spent 2 years on Bluesky while also still being here on another instance and saw convos daily on both.
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@ikuturso Those just literally are starting to accept new users widely, you could say in its infancy ActivityPub looked the same.
It's apples and oranges comparing the two in terms of what's going to happen next.
One thing i can assure you is, many of those 6 million active users there would rather use #Bluesky than #Twitter and they have zero interest in coming to #Mastodon.
I just spent 2 years on Bluesky while also still being here on another instance and saw convos daily on both.
@ikuturso I would agree with #Bluesky PBC wanting to be the only game in town in many ways, it is good for their business model.
But the user base are frustrated ex-twitter users who aren't going back there, many have tried #Mastodon and don't like it or think negatively of it even ignorantly to want to try it.
So they likely will stick it out on Bluesky the instance until #decentralization is more widespread imo.
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@ikuturso Those just literally are starting to accept new users widely, you could say in its infancy ActivityPub looked the same.
It's apples and oranges comparing the two in terms of what's going to happen next.
One thing i can assure you is, many of those 6 million active users there would rather use #Bluesky than #Twitter and they have zero interest in coming to #Mastodon.
I just spent 2 years on Bluesky while also still being here on another instance and saw convos daily on both.
@transicorn I don't think ActivityPub ever looked anything remotely like it because ActivityPub was about federation from day one. Mastodon was built for, encouraged and easily enabled federation from the moment it began its ActivityPub journey.
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@transicorn I don't think ActivityPub ever looked anything remotely like it because ActivityPub was about federation from day one. Mastodon was built for, encouraged and easily enabled federation from the moment it began its ActivityPub journey.
@ikuturso Sure, they are different there.
But the fact that #ActivityPub being so much older has never even come close to what #Bluesky is doing in user / account numbers is undeniable proof that overwhelmingly the average #SocialMedia user prefers Bluesky over #Mastodon and all ActivityPub projects aside from that.
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@ikuturso I would agree with #Bluesky PBC wanting to be the only game in town in many ways, it is good for their business model.
But the user base are frustrated ex-twitter users who aren't going back there, many have tried #Mastodon and don't like it or think negatively of it even ignorantly to want to try it.
So they likely will stick it out on Bluesky the instance until #decentralization is more widespread imo.
@transicorn yeah, there's certainly some disproportionately loud part of the userbase that are against going to Mastodon.
With the recent troubles with the CEO etc. you could see there were also many people who had no strong opinion on Mastodon though while those other people were trying to smear it.
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@transicorn yeah, there's certainly some disproportionately loud part of the userbase that are against going to Mastodon.
With the recent troubles with the CEO etc. you could see there were also many people who had no strong opinion on Mastodon though while those other people were trying to smear it.
@ikuturso I think it's obvious for many reasons the average #SocialMedia user in 2025 wants what #Bluesky offers, not what #Mastodon offers.
Personally i prefer Mastodon and bridging my account to Bluesky as well.
Time will tell if things change but there are many reasons why folks prefer Bluesky, including many who were here for years who've abandoned their accounts entirely or nearly entirely for it.
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@ikuturso I think it's obvious for many reasons the average #SocialMedia user in 2025 wants what #Bluesky offers, not what #Mastodon offers.
Personally i prefer Mastodon and bridging my account to Bluesky as well.
Time will tell if things change but there are many reasons why folks prefer Bluesky, including many who were here for years who've abandoned their accounts entirely or nearly entirely for it.
@ikuturso It's late here and i need to shower and sleep but i appreciate the conversation! I genuinely am interested in #decentralization overall, whether it be #ActivityPub or #ATProto and imo i think both succeeding and bridging accounts between the two is likely the future of #SocialMedia.
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@ikuturso It's late here and i need to shower and sleep but i appreciate the conversation! I genuinely am interested in #decentralization overall, whether it be #ActivityPub or #ATProto and imo i think both succeeding and bridging accounts between the two is likely the future of #SocialMedia.
@transicorn Yeah thanks for the convo. I think we agree on that one, I definitely like to see as much interoperability as possible.
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@transicorn @ikuturso fascinating to follow your discussion. I started out bsky and masto at tge same time. Bsky is much more attractive and easy to use and became what I used. But a while back I switched to Mastodon when I realised properly that bsky is for profit an VC.
Even though its not "kosher" I'd like to see some mild form of "algo" here, that's a drawback. But the free, decentralised and open source nature of Mastodon makes it superior by miles and miles to me.
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@transicorn While I'd certainly like to see more users I can understand not everyone cares that much and has other priorities. The thing is that the fediverse has been around and likely will continue to be for a long time at this point. Not everyone cares to chase the numbers that much and whether they grow or not isn't so much a question of life and death here unlike for something like Bluesky.
@ikuturso
Yes! THIS point: "Not everyone cares to chase the numbers".It remains to be seen if a decentralised federated "social" network can accommodate both number chasers and.. um what could one call the others... Maybe put it in terms of quantity vs quality?
Numbers, likes, follows, boosts, re-whatever, i am still not convinced there is much value in it, apart from the value as the addictive behaviour modifiers they were designed to be.
Not even for artists, musicians or others looking for "exposure". I come from a time when we wrote, drew, printed and photocopied flyers and handed them out in bars. I recorded many demos and saw many bands and musicians come and go. I saw many extremely talented writers and players go unnoticed.
It is not better now with "social" media and likes, follows. I believe it is worse. Jaron Lanier, for what it is worth, wrote a lot about this.
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@ikuturso
Yes! THIS point: "Not everyone cares to chase the numbers".It remains to be seen if a decentralised federated "social" network can accommodate both number chasers and.. um what could one call the others... Maybe put it in terms of quantity vs quality?
Numbers, likes, follows, boosts, re-whatever, i am still not convinced there is much value in it, apart from the value as the addictive behaviour modifiers they were designed to be.
Not even for artists, musicians or others looking for "exposure". I come from a time when we wrote, drew, printed and photocopied flyers and handed them out in bars. I recorded many demos and saw many bands and musicians come and go. I saw many extremely talented writers and players go unnoticed.
It is not better now with "social" media and likes, follows. I believe it is worse. Jaron Lanier, for what it is worth, wrote a lot about this.
@keith @ikuturso @homegrown So anyone who uses platforms you don't like or wants exposure doesn't make quality music? That seems a bit ignorant.
Also, i come from a time in the 80s and 90s where i personally made cassette tapes, handed them out, made my own CD's, got them in record stores myself by talking to shop owners, released a single on a floppy disc, made enhanced A/V and enhanced mp3/audio hybrid cd's and got my stuff played on local radio... all on my own.
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@keith @ikuturso @homegrown So anyone who uses platforms you don't like or wants exposure doesn't make quality music? That seems a bit ignorant.
Also, i come from a time in the 80s and 90s where i personally made cassette tapes, handed them out, made my own CD's, got them in record stores myself by talking to shop owners, released a single on a floppy disc, made enhanced A/V and enhanced mp3/audio hybrid cd's and got my stuff played on local radio... all on my own.
@keith @ikuturso @homegrown Digital distribution is just another outlet for indie musicians to get heard and possibly grow their fan base and/or profit from their work.
That should be obvious but it sounds more like you have strong negative opinions on anyone doing things in any way you don't like so there's not really much to discuss here given that.
I'm talking about artists having options, you're here to demean them should they use them.
