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Score one for atheism!

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  • W whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world

    When I worked in a nursing home, I was Christian.

    I mean, I wasn't. At all. But the dying little old ladies who sundowned so bad that they sometimes thought I was their grandchild? When they asked if I believed in Jesus, I'd bite my tongue and tell them yes. I hated having to lie to their faces, I hate even thinking about it all these years later, but some of them had nothing to look forward to except "going to heaven" by that point. Lying seemed the most ethical choice.

    remembertheapollo_@lemmy.worldR This user is from outside of this forum
    remembertheapollo_@lemmy.worldR This user is from outside of this forum
    remembertheapollo_@lemmy.world
    wrote last edited by
    #60

    I would think you’d need to tell lots of lies to someone in that state to not make things difficult over and over for them. Jesus would just be another one on that pile.

    W 1 Reply Last reply
    12
    • remembertheapollo_@lemmy.worldR remembertheapollo_@lemmy.world

      I would think you’d need to tell lots of lies to someone in that state to not make things difficult over and over for them. Jesus would just be another one on that pile.

      W This user is from outside of this forum
      W This user is from outside of this forum
      whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world
      wrote last edited by whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world
      #61

      You got it. Sometimes the safest thing to do when somebody’s having hallucinations is to play along, and that means telling lots of lies. Sometimes people think their kids (who are well into their 60s) are still newborns, and they will have a panic attack because they don’t know where their “baby” is. I’ve reassured people that I “just set the baby down to nap” numerous times.

      I’ve seen people treat dolls like real babies, too, and one time a lady rolled up to me in her wheelchair, asking to see a doctor because her baby (a doll with food smeared over its mouth) wasn’t eating. I even went so far as to get those “magic” doll bottle things that appear to “empty” when you tip them.

      Point is, you’re right. But I don’t feel as conflicted about all the other lies I told, I guess the religion thing is just too … I dunno, “icky” for me? I’m an out atheist with pretty much everyone else. I don’t like having to go back into a closet.

      remembertheapollo_@lemmy.worldR 1 Reply Last reply
      10
      • W whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world

        You got it. Sometimes the safest thing to do when somebody’s having hallucinations is to play along, and that means telling lots of lies. Sometimes people think their kids (who are well into their 60s) are still newborns, and they will have a panic attack because they don’t know where their “baby” is. I’ve reassured people that I “just set the baby down to nap” numerous times.

        I’ve seen people treat dolls like real babies, too, and one time a lady rolled up to me in her wheelchair, asking to see a doctor because her baby (a doll with food smeared over its mouth) wasn’t eating. I even went so far as to get those “magic” doll bottle things that appear to “empty” when you tip them.

        Point is, you’re right. But I don’t feel as conflicted about all the other lies I told, I guess the religion thing is just too … I dunno, “icky” for me? I’m an out atheist with pretty much everyone else. I don’t like having to go back into a closet.

        remembertheapollo_@lemmy.worldR This user is from outside of this forum
        remembertheapollo_@lemmy.worldR This user is from outside of this forum
        remembertheapollo_@lemmy.world
        wrote last edited by
        #62

        One set of lies is about their past or present. The Jesus one is about their future. It’s a lot easier to lie to someone about the former two than to tell them there’s no future, they’ll never be whole or happy again. We all need a reason to look forward, a reason to keep the chin up and carry on. Most anyone can empathetically understand how crushing it would be if they were told that they were going to die soon, so telling an Alzheimer's victim that there’s nothing to look forward to rings a similar bell in our heads.

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • J jaydee@lemmy.sdf.org

          I take this comic to be more poking fun at the portion of atheists who make their entire personality around disproving God's existence - people who try to spread atheism the same way christians spread their own gospel. It's largely not applicable to other atheists.

          A This user is from outside of this forum
          A This user is from outside of this forum
          adalast@lemmy.world
          wrote last edited by
          #63

          Yeah, those aren't athiests, they are assholes. Anyone who prosthelytizes is an asshole. Period.

          1 Reply Last reply
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          • tkk13909@sopuli.xyzT tkk13909@sopuli.xyz

            To be honest, I don't think a lot of people are ready. It's a hard thing to deconstruct your faith and if you're not careful it can take you to some really dark places. For a lot of people it's the way they find meaning and solace in a world of pain. Ultimately if you can find that comfort without tying it to religion that's better but not everyone can. That's my take on it post-deconversion

            D This user is from outside of this forum
            D This user is from outside of this forum
            drmoose@lemmy.world
            wrote last edited by
            #64

            Not to offend you but tbh I hate this thought process and imo this smells of superiority complex "peasants are just not ready for reality yet". The peasants are actually really smart and humans are very good at adapting and changing their world model given appropriate motivation.

            The world is absolutely ready to rid itself of religion.

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • D donkter@lemmy.world

              So many people in this thread completely missing the satire. The author is clearly also an atheist poking fun at the highschool reddit atheist stereotype. Taking this way too seriously.

              J This user is from outside of this forum
              J This user is from outside of this forum
              jsomae@lemmy.ml
              wrote last edited by
              #65

              I didn't catch the self-deprecation. What makes it clear?

              D 1 Reply Last reply
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              • wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.comW wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                This post did not contain any content.
                J This user is from outside of this forum
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                jsomae@lemmy.ml
                wrote last edited by
                #66

                Religion may be a lie but it's a comforting lie and that helps a lot of people get through their daily life.

                ynthrepic@lemmy.worldY 1 Reply Last reply
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                • J jsomae@lemmy.ml

                  I didn't catch the self-deprecation. What makes it clear?

                  D This user is from outside of this forum
                  D This user is from outside of this forum
                  donkter@lemmy.world
                  wrote last edited by donkter@lemmy.world
                  #67

                  To me, what this comic is saying is that even if you're able to debate someone out of believing in God it's cruel to do it to someone like your mom who has God as the central pillar of their emotional well-being.

                  It presupposes that you're able to "prove" that God doesn't exist and to me it doesn't necessarily paint the idea of being an atheist in a negative light, just the neckbeard atheist attitude that you should try to emotionally destroy people who do believe in God.

                  It's a three panel comic so yeah, it's a bit ambiguous, I just think that people are missing that the punchline is really only funny from an atheist perspective. From a Christian perspective the comic is awkward. The last panel wouldn't be a punchline and wouldn't make sense at all, how would these obviously loser neckbeards be able to prove God doesn't exist?

                  J 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • J jsomae@lemmy.ml

                    Religion may be a lie but it's a comforting lie and that helps a lot of people get through their daily life.

                    ynthrepic@lemmy.worldY This user is from outside of this forum
                    ynthrepic@lemmy.worldY This user is from outside of this forum
                    ynthrepic@lemmy.world
                    wrote last edited by
                    #68

                    Thing is it shouldn't be comforting to anyone if they really take the details seriously. You could do as much damage really educating someone about Deuteronomy and other fun parts of the Bible and ultimately leave them in a worse state than finding a way to make them an atheist.

                    We forget an atheist is just a non-theist. Someone who doesn't believe in any specific canonical god. I'm an atheist with a genuine faith the universe has more in store for "me" (whatever that is; I don't believe it's necessarily or eternally "ynthrepic") than a mere human lifetime given what we know about the universe as a whole and how mysterious and seemingly fundamental consciousness is to it all. That gives me some relief and comfort from the existential dread. More than I could possibly get from Yahweh and his totally uncompelling biblical heaven and hell dynamic.

                    godric@lemmy.worldG J 2 Replies Last reply
                    13
                    • wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.comW wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                      This post did not contain any content.
                      godric@lemmy.worldG This user is from outside of this forum
                      godric@lemmy.worldG This user is from outside of this forum
                      godric@lemmy.world
                      wrote last edited by
                      #69

                      Me at 13 discovering I wont see my loved ones ever again and there's nobody's hand on my shoulder holding me up:

                      fizz@lemmy.nzF 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • ynthrepic@lemmy.worldY ynthrepic@lemmy.world

                        Thing is it shouldn't be comforting to anyone if they really take the details seriously. You could do as much damage really educating someone about Deuteronomy and other fun parts of the Bible and ultimately leave them in a worse state than finding a way to make them an atheist.

                        We forget an atheist is just a non-theist. Someone who doesn't believe in any specific canonical god. I'm an atheist with a genuine faith the universe has more in store for "me" (whatever that is; I don't believe it's necessarily or eternally "ynthrepic") than a mere human lifetime given what we know about the universe as a whole and how mysterious and seemingly fundamental consciousness is to it all. That gives me some relief and comfort from the existential dread. More than I could possibly get from Yahweh and his totally uncompelling biblical heaven and hell dynamic.

                        godric@lemmy.worldG This user is from outside of this forum
                        godric@lemmy.worldG This user is from outside of this forum
                        godric@lemmy.world
                        wrote last edited by
                        #70

                        You're forgetting that some people have coping mechanisms for life around systems containing a kind god that's there looking after them, and will reunite them with people they desperately hope to see again when they die.

                        Your coping mechanism is hoping the universe is magical and mysterious and has something more for you when you die. You're not an atheist, just a non-denominational theist with a different hope for continuing on after you're dead. I hope it brings you comfort, but don't shit on people who have a different post death comfort they hope for.

                        ynthrepic@lemmy.worldY 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • C carbonatedpastasauce@lemmy.world

                          Nobody said reality was all smiles and rainbows. However, it’s entirely possible to find happiness without believing in fairy tales so you can sleep at night.

                          tkk13909@sopuli.xyzT This user is from outside of this forum
                          tkk13909@sopuli.xyzT This user is from outside of this forum
                          tkk13909@sopuli.xyz
                          wrote last edited by
                          #71

                          It's possible but unfortunately when people have spent their entire lives with religion being their (seemingly) only source of happiness, it can be really hard for them to find a different source.

                          1 Reply Last reply
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                          • ynthrepic@lemmy.worldY ynthrepic@lemmy.world

                            Thing is it shouldn't be comforting to anyone if they really take the details seriously. You could do as much damage really educating someone about Deuteronomy and other fun parts of the Bible and ultimately leave them in a worse state than finding a way to make them an atheist.

                            We forget an atheist is just a non-theist. Someone who doesn't believe in any specific canonical god. I'm an atheist with a genuine faith the universe has more in store for "me" (whatever that is; I don't believe it's necessarily or eternally "ynthrepic") than a mere human lifetime given what we know about the universe as a whole and how mysterious and seemingly fundamental consciousness is to it all. That gives me some relief and comfort from the existential dread. More than I could possibly get from Yahweh and his totally uncompelling biblical heaven and hell dynamic.

                            J This user is from outside of this forum
                            J This user is from outside of this forum
                            jsomae@lemmy.ml
                            wrote last edited by
                            #72

                            Most people I know who are religious don't take the bible very literally; most haven't even read it. The comforting lie is stuff about the after-life, heaven, and a caring universe.

                            ynthrepic@lemmy.worldY 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • D donkter@lemmy.world

                              To me, what this comic is saying is that even if you're able to debate someone out of believing in God it's cruel to do it to someone like your mom who has God as the central pillar of their emotional well-being.

                              It presupposes that you're able to "prove" that God doesn't exist and to me it doesn't necessarily paint the idea of being an atheist in a negative light, just the neckbeard atheist attitude that you should try to emotionally destroy people who do believe in God.

                              It's a three panel comic so yeah, it's a bit ambiguous, I just think that people are missing that the punchline is really only funny from an atheist perspective. From a Christian perspective the comic is awkward. The last panel wouldn't be a punchline and wouldn't make sense at all, how would these obviously loser neckbeards be able to prove God doesn't exist?

                              J This user is from outside of this forum
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                              jsomae@lemmy.ml
                              wrote last edited by
                              #73

                              Hmm, that is a pretty insightful point. On the other hand, I think most people I know who are religious are the sort who can appreciate self-deprecating humour themselves -- they might think it's funny for taking an absurd premise to its logical conclusion.

                              What suggests to me that this author is trying to paint atheism in a negative light is quite straightforwardly "score one for atheism." It doesn't really have a hint of irony to me. I think the author clearly thinks atheism just isn't cool anymore.

                              1 Reply Last reply
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                              • J jaydee@lemmy.sdf.org

                                Don't be anti-intellectual about this silly comic. People can apply intellectual analysis to stupid things if they want to, and they damn-well may find deeper meaning sometimes.

                                Let people have their hobbies.

                                Q This user is from outside of this forum
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                                qaz@lemmy.world
                                wrote last edited by qaz@lemmy.world
                                #74

                                So you're saying you should just let people believe and leave them be? /s

                                samus12345@lemm.eeS 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • godric@lemmy.worldG godric@lemmy.world

                                  Me at 13 discovering I wont see my loved ones ever again and there's nobody's hand on my shoulder holding me up:

                                  fizz@lemmy.nzF This user is from outside of this forum
                                  fizz@lemmy.nzF This user is from outside of this forum
                                  fizz@lemmy.nz
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #75

                                  Me when I try and pet a cat but they run away.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.comW wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                                    zeffsyde@lemmy.world
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #76

                                    With how sad and empty my geriatric mother's life is, the last thing I'm going to do is take away her imaginary friend.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • underpantsweevil@lemmy.worldU underpantsweevil@lemmy.world

                                      knowing that they’ve wasted an entire lifetime and hundreds of thousands of dollars in tithing on a con isn’t going to do anything useful at this point.

                                      It always gets me how people can be so comfortable with tithing while so prickly about paying taxes. I've straight up heard "every dollar I give to the government is one I can't give to the church" as an argument, when the town and state I'm living in is joined at the hip with the church they love.

                                      Fifty years ago? Sure, they would have had plenty of time to come to terms with it.

                                      Church is one of those third-spaces that the unemployed and retired flock to when they've got too much time and not a ton of money. A great deal of the appeal of these places, especially back in my parents' day, was as a social center with a feel-good energy. As a born-and-raised Houstonian I've seen it work on enormous numbers of otherwise-religiously-apathetic people. The whole Joel Osteen model is Good Vibes as a religious experience. One big Jesus Themed Pep Rally.

                                      I think you can probably logic your way to a "God's Not Real" conclusion with a generic religiously-ambivalent lay person. But I don't think a simple logic chain is enough to convince folks who consider religion a form of community recreation to stop showing up. No more than you could talk someone out of blaring their favorite brand of Country Music or driving an oversized pickup truck or playing with their toy guns down at the gun range.

                                      These just aren't logical decisions. They are social decisions.

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                                      helixdab2@lemm.ee
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #77

                                      I don't know that my parents were ever the kind of person that bitched about paying taxes. They might have privately, but i don't remember it ever being a big deal. Me, I understand that my taxes are too low for what I expect the gov't to be doing.

                                      And you're exactly right about the social experience. One of the enormous struggles for atheists has been building a community. Churches fill that need, even though they cause real harms in other ways. If you go to a church, it's easy to meet people and make friends when you move to a new community. If you don't, well, good luck because you're going to need it.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • spankmonkey@lemmy.worldS spankmonkey@lemmy.world

                                        Faith doesn't have any objective meaning either.

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                                        stephen01king@lemmy.zip
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #78

                                        But they already grew up with it. Finding a different subjective meaning to replace an existing one is what's hard.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • T tatann@lemm.ee

                                          Yeah, and he doesn't mind killing other people for that

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                                          stephen01king@lemmy.zip
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #79

                                          Which shows he would have been better off living in the Matrix considering how badly he reacted to leaving it.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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