I don't think people here realized yet how much development has sped up in the "atmosphere*"
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@elexia thanks for the reply, its a vast expanse of jank pretty much everywhere and very hard to keep up with everything.
@liaizon indeed
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I don't think people here realized yet how much development has sped up in the "atmosphere*"
I fear for the future of the fediverse if we don't get our shit together in some key areas. The way the lexicon system over there allows interoperability between distinct types of data and interface is really showing now that the developer ecosystem is picking up.
*The network comprised of different stuff that uses AT Proto
@liaizon i think one factor the ap ecosystem could do a lot better at is finding nodes for ap devs to aggregate around. part of atproto ecosystem dev speed is technical, but other important part is how atproto has a much more legible dev ecosystem that constantly interacts with each other. ap dev ecosystem is much more fragmented, with very little interaction between the devs
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@liaizon i think one factor the ap ecosystem could do a lot better at is finding nodes for ap devs to aggregate around. part of atproto ecosystem dev speed is technical, but other important part is how atproto has a much more legible dev ecosystem that constantly interacts with each other. ap dev ecosystem is much more fragmented, with very little interaction between the devs
@liaizon on an abstracted level is ap well suited for building networked communities while atproto is great at global distribution. in that context its painful that the atproto network has run a lap around ap when it comes to dev ecosystem network
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@liaizon on an abstracted level is ap well suited for building networked communities while atproto is great at global distribution. in that context its painful that the atproto network has run a lap around ap when it comes to dev ecosystem network
@laurenshof I think the age of the developers is not to be undervalued here, I feel like there are a lot more young ATP devs then on fedi
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I will say here again I am very much on team fediverse and the anarchist anticapitalist free culture side of networks. Bluesky has some "help" with dirty money vc bullshit. There are many things Bluesky (the company) is doing that is awful (like verifying ICE ffs and deleting Palestinian accounts) and those are things I have been continuously pointing out as well.
lol cool cool
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lol cool cool
@liaizon "extreme ideology" like thinking genocide bad hmm...
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lol cool cool
@liaizon "I don't want to be on the same instance as ICE"
"You must be what people call an extremist" -
lol cool cool
@liaizon Keep on running buddy
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Shout out to WAFRN (@admin) and @anewsocial for taking the uncomfortable position of straddling the space inbetween protocols. I think this is truly the strategy that is going to be needed if we want to "win" the push towards an open social web for the whole internet.
@liaizon @admin @anewsocial you can't be decentralized if you are on just one protocol ... and you can't win if you don't figure out how to work together ..
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lol cool cool
@liaizon looooooooool, how do people keep finding new ways for telling even harder on themselves? XD
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lol cool cool
I hope you don't mind @nicobao I federated your reply over here. As the cofounder and CTO of a company "Agora helps people overcome disagreement and find consensus, for more democratic and efficient decision-making." I would recommend doing some research into the ideologies that underline all of the decentralized protocols that exist and where they came from.
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Bluesky also has its roots in other anarchist alternative networks. It takes a lot of inspiration from the core architects being involved in SSB (Secure Scuttlebutt)
@liaizon this story feels a lot like the solid project https://solidproject.org/
Big splash at the beginning, some nerds get involved... but it's been years now, and when I tried to actually use one of the apps using it, UX was atrocious and I had to join a matrix room to get it working. Now I know I'm not the l33test hacker, but come on!
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@liaizon this story feels a lot like the solid project https://solidproject.org/
Big splash at the beginning, some nerds get involved... but it's been years now, and when I tried to actually use one of the apps using it, UX was atrocious and I had to join a matrix room to get it working. Now I know I'm not the l33test hacker, but come on!
@liaizon I honestly feel a little bitter. I know I haven't been working on the protocol, or committing to repos, but I've done a lot of advertizing and advocacy over the years. In the faith that the developers were acting in our interests...
And I know they have been! I don't want to sound ungrateful.
Ach I don't know. Just feels a bit like I/we wasted (some of) our time.
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I don't think people here realized yet how much development has sped up in the "atmosphere*"
I fear for the future of the fediverse if we don't get our shit together in some key areas. The way the lexicon system over there allows interoperability between distinct types of data and interface is really showing now that the developer ecosystem is picking up.
*The network comprised of different stuff that uses AT Proto
@liaizon anything cool like @HolosSocial happening on AT?
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I hope you don't mind @nicobao I federated your reply over here. As the cofounder and CTO of a company "Agora helps people overcome disagreement and find consensus, for more democratic and efficient decision-making." I would recommend doing some research into the ideologies that underline all of the decentralized protocols that exist and where they came from.
@liaizon you're taking this WAY too personally, while we don't even know each other. I am very much entitled to my own opinion, btw, cofounder of Agora or not. I am not an anticapitalist anarchist, fine, so what? What the heck is this ad hominem attack? The whole point of Agora is to get people to talk to each other, people who usually don't appreciate each other, without trolling, and finding common ground. Your very reaction shows exactly why I build it.
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@liaizon for me both protocols have very different success conditions. In both cases having more users off the main platforms of tiktok, Facebook, Instagram, etc is a condition. but for bsky I think it looks like total users but for fedi in think it's number of servers too.
I think that the difficulty of deploying servers was part of the reason we didn't get larger adoption. I think what fedi is great at -smaller communities having both internal and external conversations - was hampered by those groups needing to have a server deployed. The communities that would have benefited went to discord instead, and the people whov wanted microblogging wanted universal reach.
I dont know how solveable this problem was for fedi given "it's too hard to make a webserver" has been a problem since geocities.@liaizon ultimately I think we will come to regret letting the opportunity for a freer social internet slip thru our fingers in 2022. but I'm also just very pessimistic about ATP and their relay-centered architecture -
@liaizon you're taking this WAY too personally, while we don't even know each other. I am very much entitled to my own opinion, btw, cofounder of Agora or not. I am not an anticapitalist anarchist, fine, so what? What the heck is this ad hominem attack? The whole point of Agora is to get people to talk to each other, people who usually don't appreciate each other, without trolling, and finding common ground. Your very reaction shows exactly why I build it.
@liaizon as of the underlying protocols, again you don't know me, so stop the ad hominem attack, it feels like harassment. I stand with what I say. The very reason why you're here saying you prefer the Fediverse underlying ideology of the protocol is PRECISELY because it's not the only one. Lots of libertarians in the early days of the internet and still to this day. You despise these capitalists I know. But they have the right to exist you know?
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I don't think people here realized yet how much development has sped up in the "atmosphere*"
I fear for the future of the fediverse if we don't get our shit together in some key areas. The way the lexicon system over there allows interoperability between distinct types of data and interface is really showing now that the developer ecosystem is picking up.
*The network comprised of different stuff that uses AT Proto
@liaizon Seems to me that development on AT sped up *at the expense of* development on AP.
That is to say, a lot of the people who've gone all-in on AT were building here before, but have pretty much abandoned AP development. And it's worth examining why AT development was so much more appealing for those folks.
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@liaizon you're taking this WAY too personally, while we don't even know each other. I am very much entitled to my own opinion, btw, cofounder of Agora or not. I am not an anticapitalist anarchist, fine, so what? What the heck is this ad hominem attack? The whole point of Agora is to get people to talk to each other, people who usually don't appreciate each other, without trolling, and finding common ground. Your very reaction shows exactly why I build it.
@nicobao you involved yourself in this discussion by quoting my post and calling me an extremist. I'm not taking it personally anymore then you are here. Glad to have a public discussion about the ideological basis of protocol alignment!
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lol cool cool
@liaizon this is harassment.. you're getting your crowd to shit on me and misinterpret my words. I never said anything against Palestine. Anti capitalism and anarchism is by definition a far left ideology in pretty much every democracies world wide. This is just facts. I'm entitled to my opinion, so what? You guys are acting like mobs.
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