@trwnh @darius I think personally I lean towards a pure firehose model. Send me everything you got and let my clients pull out the data they're interested in

In part because we're unlikely to ever agree on one exact axis of filtering

@erincandescent @julian @mike @hongminhee @thisismissem @pfefferle @michael @renchap

This is why it should be simplified to “just render the content/summary/name” for blogging-oriented apps. The combinatorial explosion is a consequence of hyperlinks. You can’t do away with it. Side effects should be progressive enhancements.

As a publisher, what you CAN do is decide not to put a `likes` collection on everything. This means that the Like of a Like has no side effects.

@erincandescent @julian @mike @hongminhee @thisismissem @pfefferle @trwnh @michael @renchap
In that clean slate scenario, i would want to explore moving the information carried by activities into headers.

@erincandescent @darius I heavily dislike the firehose model and would be terrified if my email inbox submitted to the same philosophy.

@erincandescent @darius @trwnh the fediverse in general could benefit from thinner servers and thicker clients, it would make all these interop discussions so much easier

@laurenshof @darius @trwnh ... Things I have been shouting for literally a decade!

@erincandescent @darius @trwnh right, yeah, i meant this as a i'm-shouting-with-you-in-agreement-post

@jenniferplusplus @erincandescent @julian @mike @hongminhee @thisismissem @pfefferle @michael @renchap

We should go back to WebSub… and we should also go back to calling it PubSubHubbub

@trwnh @darius I actually think this demonstrates a fundamental flaw in the email model

There are times you want to be able to do endpoint to endpoint but potentially automatic message exchanges, and email doesn't really have a mechanism for doing this

The straightforward example is my client noticing your S/MIME or GPG key is expiring and asking if there's a new one

@trwnh @thisismissem @pfefferle @hongminhee @julian @renchap @mike @michael icon, image can help too.

@erincandescent @darius i think this could be solved by declaring specific endpoints for these things. no reason it should ever reach my inbox unless it's meant for my attention.

@trwnh @darius I guess that's where I think your inbox is your actors inbox but not necessarily "your" inbox

Things like Update and Delete activities aren't really for your attention; they're just for endpoint synchronisation

@erincandescent @julian @mike @hongminhee @thisismissem @pfefferle @trwnh @michael @renchap In pump.io, we divided the inbox stream between "major" (new content, new shares) which is shown in a home timeline interface and "minor" (everything else) streams which are shown like notifications. Your scrobbles should be notifications and should be silenceable by the recipient.

@erincandescent @darius if the actor represents me, then it is "my" inbox.

the correct solution imo is to spin up more bespoke actors. i'd really like to build upon the concept of "programmable actors", i.e., actors that are automated to act a certain way with activities they receive in their inbox. for example, a Relay could be defined as a programmable actor that Announces the object of any Create it receives, or Announces any activity it receives, or whatever. and it should be a JSON-LD type

@trwnh @darius you want more actors, I want less actors

This, obviously, means war

@trwnh @erincandescent @darius neat! The https://github.com/evanp/bots-rodeo/ platform is supposed to do just that.

@trwnh @darius more specifically if *I* have multiple actors I want to it be around multiple facets of myself, not dictated by technological constraints or similar

@darius @trwnh I don't even like that I need to have an alt. We have Google+ esque circles in the protocol, I should be asleep to use them

(And don't get me started on the fact that replies to my followers only posts get addressed to the replying person's followers)

@trwnh @jenniferplusplus @erincandescent @julian @mike @hongminhee @thisismissem @michael @renchap

ActivityPubSubHubbub!

@erincandescent @darius I think I'll win the war because I have more actors on my side