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NodeBB-ActivityPub Bridge Test Instance

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  5. Explaining the fediverse is a hard problem.

Explaining the fediverse is a hard problem.

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved AP Test (community.nodebb.org)
fedidevactivitypubfediverseopenbeta
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  • caesar@community.nodebb.orgC This user is from outside of this forum
    caesar@community.nodebb.orgC This user is from outside of this forum
    caesar@community.nodebb.org
    wrote on last edited by
    #26

    @julian Here's the one I saw today: https://indieweb.social/@omega@community.nodebb.org/113101718634936122

    However, I now see that the broken HTML appears in the original post on this forum, so it's not a federation problem. Apologies for the 'false alarm' on that aspect. I've definitely seen broken formatting before, but haven't clicked through to check where the issue was. I'll keep an eye out for it again.

    That said, my point was mainly about the difficulty of actually working out how to interact with posts from a different instance (especially one running different software), rather than about the actual content of the federated messages.

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    • omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
      omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
      omega@community.nodebb.org
      wrote on last edited by
      #27

      @caesar Yep that's it in a nutshell, nailed it, when it hits the "it just works" moment, this affords intuitive mass adoption

      0b18df20-c023-424f-a51a-1578a4884b7c-image.png

      Getting to that point is filled with blood sweat and tears.

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      • eeeee@community.nodebb.orgE This user is from outside of this forum
        eeeee@community.nodebb.orgE This user is from outside of this forum
        eeeee@community.nodebb.org
        wrote on last edited by
        #28

        Good points, and want to add, as credit to @julian , what he's building is complex.
        Not many developers could do it. 👍

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        • julian@community.nodebb.orgJ This user is from outside of this forum
          julian@community.nodebb.orgJ This user is from outside of this forum
          julian@community.nodebb.org
          wrote on last edited by
          #29

          @caesar okay, how about the permalink issue? Can you show me the link you tried to paste into Mastodon? That definitely should work. That's a fairly standard flow (which is already janky, and can be improved)

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          • caesar@community.nodebb.orgC This user is from outside of this forum
            caesar@community.nodebb.orgC This user is from outside of this forum
            caesar@community.nodebb.org
            wrote on last edited by
            #30

            @julian it was this one: https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/explaining-the-fediverse-is-a-hard-problem/4462/7
            It's a Discourse post (and thus problem) rather than a NodeBB one, but it illustrates the point of the general jankiness of inter-platform interaction on the fediverse: if I copy the permalink of your post above into my Mastodon instance, it finds it and I can reply, but if I copy the permalink of a Discourse post from the same thread, it doesn't work.

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            • caesar@community.nodebb.orgC This user is from outside of this forum
              caesar@community.nodebb.orgC This user is from outside of this forum
              caesar@community.nodebb.org
              wrote on last edited by
              #31

              @eeeee Absolutely, and @julian has my deepest respect for that. Like I mentioned, the UI for inter-platform interactions is definitely a really tricky problem to solve in an intuitive way, and I don't think any Fediverse platform has managed it yet. (I'm very interested in this because I'm starting to consider similar issues as they relate to the Fediverse implementation in Forgejo.)

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              • caesar@community.nodebb.orgC This user is from outside of this forum
                caesar@community.nodebb.orgC This user is from outside of this forum
                caesar@community.nodebb.org
                wrote on last edited by
                #32

                @julian sorry to multi-post but I forgot to say: although I can find your post from my Mastodon account and reply to it, I still haven't worked out how I would do the reverse from here. In fact I'm not sure if I can follow a Mastodon account (or perhaps more usefully, a Discourse or Lemmy topic or even a topic or account on a different NodeBB instance) from a NodeBB account at all, is that possible yet?

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                • eeeee@community.nodebb.orgE This user is from outside of this forum
                  eeeee@community.nodebb.orgE This user is from outside of this forum
                  eeeee@community.nodebb.org
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #33

                  @caesar the Discourse link you posted raises another issue.
                  Its a similar thread to this one, but it has additional posters, and any edits made in my posts arent reflected.
                  So these conversations arent fully federated when there are some posts in that thread missing from this one.
                  Out of interest @Omega, did you start your post on Discourse or on this site?

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                  • eeeee@community.nodebb.orgE This user is from outside of this forum
                    eeeee@community.nodebb.orgE This user is from outside of this forum
                    eeeee@community.nodebb.org
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #34

                    As an example as the disconnect between the thread on Nodebb and Discourse, @bumblefudge@socialhub.activitypub.rocks bumblefudge's post is missing from nodebb sites thread.
                    1000025058.jpg

                    Is the goal to duplicate all posts in all places so they stay in sync?

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                    • caesar@indieweb.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                      caesar@indieweb.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                      caesar@indieweb.social
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #35

                      @eeeee The lack of complete federation is another very good point that makes federation less-than-intuitive. From my Mastodon instance the situation is worse, none of @bumblefudge posts nor any others from SocailHub appear in the thread. (See https://indieweb.social/@julian@community.nodebb.org/112972609579702339)

                      caesar@indieweb.socialC 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • caesar@indieweb.socialC caesar@indieweb.social

                        @eeeee The lack of complete federation is another very good point that makes federation less-than-intuitive. From my Mastodon instance the situation is worse, none of @bumblefudge posts nor any others from SocailHub appear in the thread. (See https://indieweb.social/@julian@community.nodebb.org/112972609579702339)

                        caesar@indieweb.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                        caesar@indieweb.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
                        caesar@indieweb.social
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #36

                        I suspect most of the federation problems mentioned in the last few posts are the "fault" of Discourse – BrowserPub fails to find anything at https://browser.pub/https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/explaining-the-fediverse-is-a-hard-problem/4462/4 – but in the end the user doesn't care whose fault it is when something doesn't work, they just think federation is confusing and broken.

                        julian@community.nodebb.orgJ 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • caesar@indieweb.socialC caesar@indieweb.social

                          I suspect most of the federation problems mentioned in the last few posts are the "fault" of Discourse – BrowserPub fails to find anything at https://browser.pub/https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/explaining-the-fediverse-is-a-hard-problem/4462/4 – but in the end the user doesn't care whose fault it is when something doesn't work, they just think federation is confusing and broken.

                          julian@community.nodebb.orgJ This user is from outside of this forum
                          julian@community.nodebb.orgJ This user is from outside of this forum
                          julian@community.nodebb.org
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #37

                          @caesar@indieweb.social the sync issue from Discourse is a little different... That's achieved via a category syncing mechanism that is unique to Discourse and NodeBB, right now that's broken and I have to wait until @angus@socialhub.activitypub.rocks comes back to address it.

                          Same with the links in Discourse being unsearchable. They'll have to fix that.

                          julian@community.nodebb.orgJ 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • julian@community.nodebb.orgJ julian@community.nodebb.org

                            @caesar@indieweb.social the sync issue from Discourse is a little different... That's achieved via a category syncing mechanism that is unique to Discourse and NodeBB, right now that's broken and I have to wait until @angus@socialhub.activitypub.rocks comes back to address it.

                            Same with the links in Discourse being unsearchable. They'll have to fix that.

                            julian@community.nodebb.orgJ This user is from outside of this forum
                            julian@community.nodebb.orgJ This user is from outside of this forum
                            julian@community.nodebb.org
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #38

                            @caesar@indieweb.social you can load remote content from the fediverse via NodeBB, just enter the permalink into the search bar.

                            For users, enter the handle in the users page search bar.

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                            • julian@community.nodebb.orgJ This user is from outside of this forum
                              julian@community.nodebb.orgJ This user is from outside of this forum
                              julian@community.nodebb.org
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #39

                              @caesar @caesar@indieweb.social I've manually pulled in @bumblefudge@socialhub.activitypub.rocks and @sortekanin@socialhub.activitypub.rocks's posts now.

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                              • omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                                omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                                omega@community.nodebb.org
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #40

                                @eeeee I am native posting only

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                                • omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                                  omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                                  omega@community.nodebb.org
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #41

                                  https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-string-theory-2699363

                                  Link Preview Image
                                  String Theory: The Mathematics of Moving Beyond Current Physics

                                  String theory claims the dimensions of space and time that we observe are a result of vibrations of microscopic energy strings.

                                  favicon

                                  ThoughtCo (www.thoughtco.com)

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                                  • eeeee@community.nodebb.orgE This user is from outside of this forum
                                    eeeee@community.nodebb.orgE This user is from outside of this forum
                                    eeeee@community.nodebb.org
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #42

                                    Omega, From your descriptive posts I thought you were a writer, but now a Physicist!
                                    Many talents 😀

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                                    • omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                                      omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                                      omega@community.nodebb.org
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #43

                                      @eeeee I always get a Schrödinger's cat vibe off these fediverse topics am I the only one?

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                                      • omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                                        omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                                        omega@community.nodebb.org
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #44

                                        Personally I think the word
                                        Federated is being used as if it was the word disseminated, which to me is more apt descriptively

                                        “your post is disseminated across multiple platforms at once… this is the fediverse… and you are like a sun and each post a ray of light that eventually reaches planets... soon disparate planetary religions spring up worshipping your name spanning light years across the galaxies”

                                        Maybe not the last bit 😅

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                                        • omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                                          omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                                          omega@community.nodebb.org
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #45

                                          Here is an edite version of the wiki entry:

                                          The fediverse is a collection of social networks that can communicate with each other using a common protocol. Users of different websites can send and receive status updates, multimedia files and other data across the network.

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