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NodeBB-ActivityPub Bridge Test Instance

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  5. Explaining the fediverse is a hard problem.

Explaining the fediverse is a hard problem.

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  • caesar@community.nodebb.orgC This user is from outside of this forum
    caesar@community.nodebb.orgC This user is from outside of this forum
    caesar@community.nodebb.org
    wrote on last edited by
    #32

    @julian sorry to multi-post but I forgot to say: although I can find your post from my Mastodon account and reply to it, I still haven't worked out how I would do the reverse from here. In fact I'm not sure if I can follow a Mastodon account (or perhaps more usefully, a Discourse or Lemmy topic or even a topic or account on a different NodeBB instance) from a NodeBB account at all, is that possible yet?

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    • eeeee@community.nodebb.orgE This user is from outside of this forum
      eeeee@community.nodebb.orgE This user is from outside of this forum
      eeeee@community.nodebb.org
      wrote on last edited by
      #33

      @caesar the Discourse link you posted raises another issue.
      Its a similar thread to this one, but it has additional posters, and any edits made in my posts arent reflected.
      So these conversations arent fully federated when there are some posts in that thread missing from this one.
      Out of interest @Omega, did you start your post on Discourse or on this site?

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      • eeeee@community.nodebb.orgE This user is from outside of this forum
        eeeee@community.nodebb.orgE This user is from outside of this forum
        eeeee@community.nodebb.org
        wrote on last edited by
        #34

        As an example as the disconnect between the thread on Nodebb and Discourse, @bumblefudge@socialhub.activitypub.rocks bumblefudge's post is missing from nodebb sites thread.
        1000025058.jpg

        Is the goal to duplicate all posts in all places so they stay in sync?

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        • caesar@indieweb.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
          caesar@indieweb.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
          caesar@indieweb.social
          wrote on last edited by
          #35

          @eeeee The lack of complete federation is another very good point that makes federation less-than-intuitive. From my Mastodon instance the situation is worse, none of @bumblefudge posts nor any others from SocailHub appear in the thread. (See https://indieweb.social/@julian@community.nodebb.org/112972609579702339)

          caesar@indieweb.socialC 1 Reply Last reply
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          • caesar@indieweb.socialC caesar@indieweb.social

            @eeeee The lack of complete federation is another very good point that makes federation less-than-intuitive. From my Mastodon instance the situation is worse, none of @bumblefudge posts nor any others from SocailHub appear in the thread. (See https://indieweb.social/@julian@community.nodebb.org/112972609579702339)

            caesar@indieweb.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
            caesar@indieweb.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
            caesar@indieweb.social
            wrote on last edited by
            #36

            I suspect most of the federation problems mentioned in the last few posts are the "fault" of Discourse – BrowserPub fails to find anything at https://browser.pub/https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/explaining-the-fediverse-is-a-hard-problem/4462/4 – but in the end the user doesn't care whose fault it is when something doesn't work, they just think federation is confusing and broken.

            julian@community.nodebb.orgJ 1 Reply Last reply
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            • caesar@indieweb.socialC caesar@indieweb.social

              I suspect most of the federation problems mentioned in the last few posts are the "fault" of Discourse – BrowserPub fails to find anything at https://browser.pub/https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/explaining-the-fediverse-is-a-hard-problem/4462/4 – but in the end the user doesn't care whose fault it is when something doesn't work, they just think federation is confusing and broken.

              julian@community.nodebb.orgJ This user is from outside of this forum
              julian@community.nodebb.orgJ This user is from outside of this forum
              julian@community.nodebb.org
              wrote on last edited by
              #37

              @caesar@indieweb.social the sync issue from Discourse is a little different... That's achieved via a category syncing mechanism that is unique to Discourse and NodeBB, right now that's broken and I have to wait until @angus@socialhub.activitypub.rocks comes back to address it.

              Same with the links in Discourse being unsearchable. They'll have to fix that.

              julian@community.nodebb.orgJ 1 Reply Last reply
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              • julian@community.nodebb.orgJ julian@community.nodebb.org

                @caesar@indieweb.social the sync issue from Discourse is a little different... That's achieved via a category syncing mechanism that is unique to Discourse and NodeBB, right now that's broken and I have to wait until @angus@socialhub.activitypub.rocks comes back to address it.

                Same with the links in Discourse being unsearchable. They'll have to fix that.

                julian@community.nodebb.orgJ This user is from outside of this forum
                julian@community.nodebb.orgJ This user is from outside of this forum
                julian@community.nodebb.org
                wrote on last edited by
                #38

                @caesar@indieweb.social you can load remote content from the fediverse via NodeBB, just enter the permalink into the search bar.

                For users, enter the handle in the users page search bar.

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                • julian@community.nodebb.orgJ This user is from outside of this forum
                  julian@community.nodebb.orgJ This user is from outside of this forum
                  julian@community.nodebb.org
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #39

                  @caesar @caesar@indieweb.social I've manually pulled in @bumblefudge@socialhub.activitypub.rocks and @sortekanin@socialhub.activitypub.rocks's posts now.

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                  • omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                    omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                    omega@community.nodebb.org
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #40

                    @eeeee I am native posting only

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                    • omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                      omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                      omega@community.nodebb.org
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #41

                      https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-string-theory-2699363

                      Link Preview Image
                      String Theory: The Mathematics of Moving Beyond Current Physics

                      String theory claims the dimensions of space and time that we observe are a result of vibrations of microscopic energy strings.

                      favicon

                      ThoughtCo (www.thoughtco.com)

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                      • eeeee@community.nodebb.orgE This user is from outside of this forum
                        eeeee@community.nodebb.orgE This user is from outside of this forum
                        eeeee@community.nodebb.org
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #42

                        Omega, From your descriptive posts I thought you were a writer, but now a Physicist!
                        Many talents 😀

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                        • omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                          omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                          omega@community.nodebb.org
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #43

                          @eeeee I always get a Schrödinger's cat vibe off these fediverse topics am I the only one?

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                          • omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                            omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                            omega@community.nodebb.org
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #44

                            Personally I think the word
                            Federated is being used as if it was the word disseminated, which to me is more apt descriptively

                            “your post is disseminated across multiple platforms at once… this is the fediverse… and you are like a sun and each post a ray of light that eventually reaches planets... soon disparate planetary religions spring up worshipping your name spanning light years across the galaxies”

                            Maybe not the last bit 😅

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                            • omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                              omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                              omega@community.nodebb.org
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #45

                              Here is an edite version of the wiki entry:

                              The fediverse is a collection of social networks that can communicate with each other using a common protocol. Users of different websites can send and receive status updates, multimedia files and other data across the network.

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                              • omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                                omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                                omega@community.nodebb.org
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #46

                                How about... the fediverse is like building a bunch of interstates between big websites

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                                • eeeee@community.nodebb.orgE This user is from outside of this forum
                                  eeeee@community.nodebb.orgE This user is from outside of this forum
                                  eeeee@community.nodebb.org
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #47

                                  @omega said in Explaining the fediverse is a hard problem.:

                                  @eeeee I always get a Schrödinger's cat vibe off these fediverse topics am I the only one?

                                  Absolutely, you never know if fediverse posts did or didnt propegate, until they are observed! Haha

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                                  • sortekanin@socialhub.activitypub.rocksS sortekanin@socialhub.activitypub.rocks
                                    Kichae:

                                    Growing up with email, forums, and IRC, it seems only natural...

                                    Well yea, of course, if you grew up with decentralized social technology, then it seems natural to you. If you're reading this, you're probably in the top 1% of tech-literate people in the world (if not top 0.1%). Unfortunately, if you are reading this, you'll probably also have a hard time understanding the struggle of the remaining 99%, because you will have a hard time putting yourself in their shoes.

                                    Reacting with astonishment about how people are not as tech-literate as you would hope is not a good path for understanding those people.

                                    This is essentially the Curse of Knowledge. For good examples, look at some of the tag lines that appear on some fediverse app websites:

                                    • Lemmy: "A link aggregator for the fediverse"
                                    • Misskey: "Interplanetary microblogging platform.Misskey is an open source, decentralized social media platform that's free forever!"
                                    • Mbin: "A federated content aggregator, voting, discussion and microblogging platform."

                                    Normal people (the 99%) do not know any of these words:

                                    • Link/content aggregator?
                                    • "Fediverse"?
                                    • Microblogging?
                                    • Open source?
                                    • Decentralized?
                                    • Federated?

                                    (I'm not especially bashing Lemmy, Misskey or Mbin here, it was just some examples I found; no offense meant, this is a hard problem, lots of fediverse apps do this)

                                    It's no surprise that the fediverse is mostly dominated by technical people, because generally the fediverse platforms do not do an amazing job at introducing and teaching people the concept of the fediverse. You will not get a "normal person" (non-techie person) to sign up on a site that starts out with several technical terms that they don't understand.

                                    The approach taken by Mastodon's intro site is much more friendly to newcomers and I wish more apps would do the same. Pixelfed is also close though it still mentions "Open source and decentralized".

                                    omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                                    omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                                    omega@community.nodebb.org
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #48

                                    Hmmm @sortekanin@socialhub.activitypub.rocks is it possible for whatever reason your posts no. 6 and no. 10 in this topic, were not originally available for me to read yesterday/ but I am reading them today, one was a reply to me (but saw no notification) other than I scrolled past too fast.

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                                    • omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                                      omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                                      omega@community.nodebb.org
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #49

                                      @eeeee Ha ha maybe you answered my last post as I was writing it!

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                                      • eeeee@community.nodebb.orgE This user is from outside of this forum
                                        eeeee@community.nodebb.orgE This user is from outside of this forum
                                        eeeee@community.nodebb.org
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #50

                                        One thing that hasnt really been tested yet, is volumes, and the data that needs to be shared if say contribitors are on different networks.
                                        On your physics theme then the data share is potentially exponential as more people join the conversation.
                                        A thread with 100 different origin posts and the updates required to keep everyone in sync

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                                        • omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                                          omega@community.nodebb.orgO This user is from outside of this forum
                                          omega@community.nodebb.org
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #51

                                          @eeeee When you wrote Explaining the fediverse is a hard problem.:

                                          a thread with 100 different origin

                                          Do you mean each post originating post actin was on a different platform but the entire thread of 100 post is potentially equally visible on each of those different platforms?

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