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  4. Sorry, Cthulhu -- you'll always be my number 2

Sorry, Cthulhu -- you'll always be my number 2

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  • R ricecake@sh.itjust.works

    Probably wasn't edited because it wasn't a deliberate change. People were the ones to write the texts and stories, but not a person.
    Telling the story you were told as you understand it will introduce some drift, as will making the jump to writing it down. Translation also introduces points where meaning can drift, since you have to write down what you understand the text to read, and you can be unclear on both sides.

    People making a good faith effort try not to intentionally embellish their important texts, even if parts seem to contrasict.

    Judaism and the old testament have had a lot of the quirks stick out so much because there are strict rules about preserving the integrity of the stories, once they got written down. Not from memory, only from another scroll created in this fashion and no other sources, only a specific font with specific text alignment, copy letter by letter and read aloud as you go, and then you can check the number of letters as you go to verify.
    Other religions over time haven't had as much of a focus on textual preservation, so the stories can drift to match with the change in beliefs.

    C This user is from outside of this forum
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    case@lemmynsfw.com
    wrote last edited by
    #42

    Wait wait wait, did Judaism invent the basic concept of a checksum?

    That is... very interesting. I know numerology and the like are very popular parts of Jewish occultism.

    R U 2 Replies Last reply
    4
    • sundray@lemmus.orgS sundray@lemmus.org

      Bob the Angry Flower - The First Commandment

      E This user is from outside of this forum
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      epicstove@lemmy.ca
      wrote last edited by
      #43

      Correct me if I'm wrong, my knowledge of this history is iffy at best,

      Iirc, Early Judaism wasn't monotheistic like it, Christianity, and Islam are now.

      The people at the time had multiple gods, one of which was a minor god associated with storms. At some point this god was boosted into popularity and became the primary god of the old testament and eventually THE god of the 3 Religions.

      The line being written like this could be a holdover from this extremely early culture which was initially Polytheistic.

      OR it's just a funky translation and just ment to mean "Don't worship someone as a God like their any better than me.THE God."

      S mirthfulalembic@lemmy.worldM 2 Replies Last reply
      24
      • queermunist@lemmy.mlQ queermunist@lemmy.ml

        I'm into decolonization of Christianity, and one thing that's really interesting is how saints were used by conquered peoples to preserve their gods and cultural practices i.e. syncretism. That's one of the reasons Catholicism has remained more prominent than Protestantism in Latin America.

        Catholicism outside of the Vatican is peganism and animism and ancestor worship with the labels scratched off.

        And I'm mature enough in my atheism (really, post-atheist) to think that's actually really cool.

        C This user is from outside of this forum
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        case@lemmynsfw.com
        wrote last edited by
        #44

        I'm not a practitioner, but I've done a lot of reading on Voodoo.

        African, Haitian, and New Orleans.

        Often, at least in Haiti and New Orleans, Catholic saints are matched with a particular Loa (spirit, god, whatever you wanna call it)

        This was due to Voodoo practitioners being killed for not being Christians in Haiti. Thus, they could worship Saint whoever visually, while still interacting with their own faith. It just traveled to the new world as people did.

        The process is called Syncretism, and Voodoo is hardly the first or last instance of it happening.

        As you mentioned, the church has done this too.

        Easter? Eostre was a fertility deity associated with spring and rabbits.

        Christmas? Yule.

        It goes on.

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • indibrony@lemmy.worldI indibrony@lemmy.world

          The way it sounds in full is like "I saved you from a tyrant you were forced to serve and worship! Therefore you must serve and worship me!"

          I'm not the only one reading it like that, right?

          S This user is from outside of this forum
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          sippycup@feddit.nl
          wrote last edited by
          #45

          The old testament is full of kinda fucked up, borderline abusive demands.

          NVM he has you cut the tip of your dick off as an act of devotion it's full on abusive.

          1 Reply Last reply
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          • E epicstove@lemmy.ca

            Correct me if I'm wrong, my knowledge of this history is iffy at best,

            Iirc, Early Judaism wasn't monotheistic like it, Christianity, and Islam are now.

            The people at the time had multiple gods, one of which was a minor god associated with storms. At some point this god was boosted into popularity and became the primary god of the old testament and eventually THE god of the 3 Religions.

            The line being written like this could be a holdover from this extremely early culture which was initially Polytheistic.

            OR it's just a funky translation and just ment to mean "Don't worship someone as a God like their any better than me.THE God."

            S This user is from outside of this forum
            S This user is from outside of this forum
            saeveo@lemmy.world
            wrote last edited by
            #46

            Yeah, there's a bit of a discussion about this further down the thread. Yahweh was originally some sort of god of war (and maybe storms? See the great flood), but as his worship became more prominent he assumed the attributes (and name, even) of the chief god of the pantheon, El.

            H 1 Reply Last reply
            7
            • sundray@lemmus.orgS sundray@lemmus.org

              Bob the Angry Flower - The First Commandment

              J This user is from outside of this forum
              J This user is from outside of this forum
              jankatarch@lemmy.world
              wrote last edited by
              #47

              Now read in original language.

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • S shalafi@lemmy.world

                Religion is baked into our very genes.

                “Fifty thousand years ago there were these three guys spread out across the plain and they each heard something rustling in the grass. The first one thought it was a tiger, and he ran like hell, and it was a tiger but the guy got away. The second one thought the rustling was a tiger and he ran like hell, but it was only the wind and his friends all laughed at him for being such a chickenshit. But the third guy thought it was only the wind, so he shrugged it off and the tiger had him for dinner. And the same thing happened a million times across ten thousand generations - and after a while everyone was seeing tigers in the grass even when there were`t any tigers, because even chickenshits have more kids than corpses do. And from those humble beginnings we learn to see faces in the clouds and portents in the stars, to see agency in randomness, because natural selection favours the paranoid. Even here in the 21st century we can make people more honest just by scribbling a pair of eyes on the wall with a Sharpie. Even now we are wired to believe that unseen things are watching us.”

                ― Peter Watts, Echopraxia

                And yes, the penultimate sentence is an experimentally verified fact.

                underpantsweevil@lemmy.worldU This user is from outside of this forum
                underpantsweevil@lemmy.worldU This user is from outside of this forum
                underpantsweevil@lemmy.world
                wrote last edited by
                #48

                Peter Watts, Echopraxia

                S 1 Reply Last reply
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                • S saleh@feddit.org

                  The Torah has been preserved in Hebrew, but changed in writing over time. The Quran has been preserved in Arabic and the original text is preserved, which is also why the language is preserved.

                  Your argument is factually wrong and calling all Jews, Muslims and Christians "fucking idiots" is racist and antisemitic.

                  3 This user is from outside of this forum
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                  3dmvr@lemm.ee
                  wrote last edited by
                  #49

                  lol, man didn not even mentions jewish ppl expicitly and you threw in antisemite lmaoo

                  S 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • C case@lemmynsfw.com

                    Wait wait wait, did Judaism invent the basic concept of a checksum?

                    That is... very interesting. I know numerology and the like are very popular parts of Jewish occultism.

                    R This user is from outside of this forum
                    R This user is from outside of this forum
                    ricecake@sh.itjust.works
                    wrote last edited by
                    #50

                    Wouldn't go quite that far, but given you needed to be relatively educated to qualify for the task it wouldn't surprise me to learn there were some acceptable tricks for catching or preventing errors that we would recognize as parity checks.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • queermunist@lemmy.mlQ queermunist@lemmy.ml

                      I'm into decolonization of Christianity, and one thing that's really interesting is how saints were used by conquered peoples to preserve their gods and cultural practices i.e. syncretism. That's one of the reasons Catholicism has remained more prominent than Protestantism in Latin America.

                      Catholicism outside of the Vatican is peganism and animism and ancestor worship with the labels scratched off.

                      And I'm mature enough in my atheism (really, post-atheist) to think that's actually really cool.

                      B This user is from outside of this forum
                      B This user is from outside of this forum
                      blackstampede@sh.itjust.works
                      wrote last edited by
                      #51

                      What is "post-atheism"?

                      queermunist@lemmy.mlQ 1 Reply Last reply
                      1
                      • sundray@lemmus.orgS sundray@lemmus.org

                        Bob the Angry Flower - The First Commandment

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                        H This user is from outside of this forum
                        humanspiral@lemmy.ca
                        wrote last edited by
                        #52

                        Yaweh was one of the sons of El in Caananite religion, which has the same Noah myth, and the religion/people is based on one of his son's decendants. El was accepted by Greeks as the same god as Zeus. Many other Caananite polytheistic gods had Greek equivalents.

                        When Moses wrote the tablets, he was basically doing a religious coup to claim the Hebrew/Israelite "subgod" was the primary god. Denouncing Idolatry, and "thou shalt not covet" was also a rebelion against the main/historical Phoenecian/Caananite religion to when Israelites war against Phoenecians "do not covet their idols, destroy them".

                        D 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • S saeveo@lemmy.world

                          Yeah, there's a bit of a discussion about this further down the thread. Yahweh was originally some sort of god of war (and maybe storms? See the great flood), but as his worship became more prominent he assumed the attributes (and name, even) of the chief god of the pantheon, El.

                          H This user is from outside of this forum
                          H This user is from outside of this forum
                          humanspiral@lemmy.ca
                          wrote last edited by
                          #53

                          Yaweh was the "subgod" for Israelites.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          3
                          • E epicstove@lemmy.ca

                            Correct me if I'm wrong, my knowledge of this history is iffy at best,

                            Iirc, Early Judaism wasn't monotheistic like it, Christianity, and Islam are now.

                            The people at the time had multiple gods, one of which was a minor god associated with storms. At some point this god was boosted into popularity and became the primary god of the old testament and eventually THE god of the 3 Religions.

                            The line being written like this could be a holdover from this extremely early culture which was initially Polytheistic.

                            OR it's just a funky translation and just ment to mean "Don't worship someone as a God like their any better than me.THE God."

                            mirthfulalembic@lemmy.worldM This user is from outside of this forum
                            mirthfulalembic@lemmy.worldM This user is from outside of this forum
                            mirthfulalembic@lemmy.world
                            wrote last edited by
                            #54

                            Yep.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            2
                            • D diykeyboards@lemmy.world

                              The Bible itself acknowledges other gods. When God made Man "in our image" he was speaking to the pantheon of gods.

                              There are other examples, but I'm no scholar and my toast is almost ready.

                              quarterswede@lemmy.worldQ This user is from outside of this forum
                              quarterswede@lemmy.worldQ This user is from outside of this forum
                              quarterswede@lemmy.world
                              wrote last edited by
                              #55

                              No, he was speaking to the triune God, 3 in 1, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They are the same God.

                              P D 2 Replies Last reply
                              2
                              • B blackstampede@sh.itjust.works

                                What is "post-atheism"?

                                queermunist@lemmy.mlQ This user is from outside of this forum
                                queermunist@lemmy.mlQ This user is from outside of this forum
                                queermunist@lemmy.ml
                                wrote last edited by queermunist@lemmy.ml
                                #56

                                Recognizing that religion had an important place in the historical development of society (culture, government, labor, ownership, law, family, etc) and that being religious has a material basis that exists outside of our own ability to choose our beliefs.

                                Atheism isn't a choice. Theism isn't a choice. They are just products of our material conditions.

                                So, I don't try to convince anyone about atheism; I'm honestly somewhat jealous that religious people can still believe in anything.

                                1 Reply Last reply
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                                • 3 3dmvr@lemm.ee

                                  lol, man didn not even mentions jewish ppl expicitly and you threw in antisemite lmaoo

                                  S This user is from outside of this forum
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                                  saleh@feddit.org
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #57

                                  The Torah is where the ten commandments first are written down. By Jews in Hebrew.

                                  And just not mentioning a group explicitly, does not mean you dont attack them.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  1
                                  • sundray@lemmus.orgS sundray@lemmus.org

                                    Bob the Angry Flower - The First Commandment

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                                    stupidcasey@lemmy.world
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #58

                                    This is my first wife Yahweh, and my second wife Amen-Ra.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    7
                                    • C case@lemmynsfw.com

                                      Wait wait wait, did Judaism invent the basic concept of a checksum?

                                      That is... very interesting. I know numerology and the like are very popular parts of Jewish occultism.

                                      U This user is from outside of this forum
                                      U This user is from outside of this forum
                                      uruanna@lemmy.world
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #59

                                      It's not specific to Judaism, any oral tradition relies on the length of a sentence and rhyming and repetitions to make sure you got the right phrasing. That's how you come up with poetry and alexandrine and all that, everyone uses it.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      2
                                      • sundray@lemmus.orgS sundray@lemmus.org

                                        Bob the Angry Flower - The First Commandment

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                                        A This user is from outside of this forum
                                        archmageazor@lemmy.world
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #60

                                        Back in the day you would pick and choose the gods you worshipped, like from the greek or roman pantheon. But if you chose to worship God you would have to put him literally before the other gods.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • sundray@lemmus.orgS sundray@lemmus.org

                                          Bob the Angry Flower - The First Commandment

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                                          hakunawazo@lemmy.world
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #61

                                          If Cthulhu is your number 2 you immediately need to check for hemmorhoids.

                                          _ 1 Reply Last reply
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