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  4. Sorry, Cthulhu -- you'll always be my number 2

Sorry, Cthulhu -- you'll always be my number 2

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  • E epicstove@lemmy.ca

    Correct me if I'm wrong, my knowledge of this history is iffy at best,

    Iirc, Early Judaism wasn't monotheistic like it, Christianity, and Islam are now.

    The people at the time had multiple gods, one of which was a minor god associated with storms. At some point this god was boosted into popularity and became the primary god of the old testament and eventually THE god of the 3 Religions.

    The line being written like this could be a holdover from this extremely early culture which was initially Polytheistic.

    OR it's just a funky translation and just ment to mean "Don't worship someone as a God like their any better than me.THE God."

    S This user is from outside of this forum
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    saeveo@lemmy.world
    wrote last edited by
    #46

    Yeah, there's a bit of a discussion about this further down the thread. Yahweh was originally some sort of god of war (and maybe storms? See the great flood), but as his worship became more prominent he assumed the attributes (and name, even) of the chief god of the pantheon, El.

    H 1 Reply Last reply
    7
    • sundray@lemmus.orgS sundray@lemmus.org

      Bob the Angry Flower - The First Commandment

      J This user is from outside of this forum
      J This user is from outside of this forum
      jankatarch@lemmy.world
      wrote last edited by
      #47

      Now read in original language.

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • S shalafi@lemmy.world

        Religion is baked into our very genes.

        “Fifty thousand years ago there were these three guys spread out across the plain and they each heard something rustling in the grass. The first one thought it was a tiger, and he ran like hell, and it was a tiger but the guy got away. The second one thought the rustling was a tiger and he ran like hell, but it was only the wind and his friends all laughed at him for being such a chickenshit. But the third guy thought it was only the wind, so he shrugged it off and the tiger had him for dinner. And the same thing happened a million times across ten thousand generations - and after a while everyone was seeing tigers in the grass even when there were`t any tigers, because even chickenshits have more kids than corpses do. And from those humble beginnings we learn to see faces in the clouds and portents in the stars, to see agency in randomness, because natural selection favours the paranoid. Even here in the 21st century we can make people more honest just by scribbling a pair of eyes on the wall with a Sharpie. Even now we are wired to believe that unseen things are watching us.”

        ― Peter Watts, Echopraxia

        And yes, the penultimate sentence is an experimentally verified fact.

        underpantsweevil@lemmy.worldU This user is from outside of this forum
        underpantsweevil@lemmy.worldU This user is from outside of this forum
        underpantsweevil@lemmy.world
        wrote last edited by
        #48

        Peter Watts, Echopraxia

        S 1 Reply Last reply
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        • S saleh@feddit.org

          The Torah has been preserved in Hebrew, but changed in writing over time. The Quran has been preserved in Arabic and the original text is preserved, which is also why the language is preserved.

          Your argument is factually wrong and calling all Jews, Muslims and Christians "fucking idiots" is racist and antisemitic.

          3 This user is from outside of this forum
          3 This user is from outside of this forum
          3dmvr@lemm.ee
          wrote last edited by
          #49

          lol, man didn not even mentions jewish ppl expicitly and you threw in antisemite lmaoo

          S 1 Reply Last reply
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          • C case@lemmynsfw.com

            Wait wait wait, did Judaism invent the basic concept of a checksum?

            That is... very interesting. I know numerology and the like are very popular parts of Jewish occultism.

            R This user is from outside of this forum
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            ricecake@sh.itjust.works
            wrote last edited by
            #50

            Wouldn't go quite that far, but given you needed to be relatively educated to qualify for the task it wouldn't surprise me to learn there were some acceptable tricks for catching or preventing errors that we would recognize as parity checks.

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • queermunist@lemmy.mlQ queermunist@lemmy.ml

              I'm into decolonization of Christianity, and one thing that's really interesting is how saints were used by conquered peoples to preserve their gods and cultural practices i.e. syncretism. That's one of the reasons Catholicism has remained more prominent than Protestantism in Latin America.

              Catholicism outside of the Vatican is peganism and animism and ancestor worship with the labels scratched off.

              And I'm mature enough in my atheism (really, post-atheist) to think that's actually really cool.

              B This user is from outside of this forum
              B This user is from outside of this forum
              blackstampede@sh.itjust.works
              wrote last edited by
              #51

              What is "post-atheism"?

              queermunist@lemmy.mlQ 1 Reply Last reply
              1
              • sundray@lemmus.orgS sundray@lemmus.org

                Bob the Angry Flower - The First Commandment

                H This user is from outside of this forum
                H This user is from outside of this forum
                humanspiral@lemmy.ca
                wrote last edited by
                #52

                Yaweh was one of the sons of El in Caananite religion, which has the same Noah myth, and the religion/people is based on one of his son's decendants. El was accepted by Greeks as the same god as Zeus. Many other Caananite polytheistic gods had Greek equivalents.

                When Moses wrote the tablets, he was basically doing a religious coup to claim the Hebrew/Israelite "subgod" was the primary god. Denouncing Idolatry, and "thou shalt not covet" was also a rebelion against the main/historical Phoenecian/Caananite religion to when Israelites war against Phoenecians "do not covet their idols, destroy them".

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                • S saeveo@lemmy.world

                  Yeah, there's a bit of a discussion about this further down the thread. Yahweh was originally some sort of god of war (and maybe storms? See the great flood), but as his worship became more prominent he assumed the attributes (and name, even) of the chief god of the pantheon, El.

                  H This user is from outside of this forum
                  H This user is from outside of this forum
                  humanspiral@lemmy.ca
                  wrote last edited by
                  #53

                  Yaweh was the "subgod" for Israelites.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  3
                  • E epicstove@lemmy.ca

                    Correct me if I'm wrong, my knowledge of this history is iffy at best,

                    Iirc, Early Judaism wasn't monotheistic like it, Christianity, and Islam are now.

                    The people at the time had multiple gods, one of which was a minor god associated with storms. At some point this god was boosted into popularity and became the primary god of the old testament and eventually THE god of the 3 Religions.

                    The line being written like this could be a holdover from this extremely early culture which was initially Polytheistic.

                    OR it's just a funky translation and just ment to mean "Don't worship someone as a God like their any better than me.THE God."

                    mirthfulalembic@lemmy.worldM This user is from outside of this forum
                    mirthfulalembic@lemmy.worldM This user is from outside of this forum
                    mirthfulalembic@lemmy.world
                    wrote last edited by
                    #54

                    Yep.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    2
                    • D diykeyboards@lemmy.world

                      The Bible itself acknowledges other gods. When God made Man "in our image" he was speaking to the pantheon of gods.

                      There are other examples, but I'm no scholar and my toast is almost ready.

                      quarterswede@lemmy.worldQ This user is from outside of this forum
                      quarterswede@lemmy.worldQ This user is from outside of this forum
                      quarterswede@lemmy.world
                      wrote last edited by
                      #55

                      No, he was speaking to the triune God, 3 in 1, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They are the same God.

                      P D 2 Replies Last reply
                      2
                      • B blackstampede@sh.itjust.works

                        What is "post-atheism"?

                        queermunist@lemmy.mlQ This user is from outside of this forum
                        queermunist@lemmy.mlQ This user is from outside of this forum
                        queermunist@lemmy.ml
                        wrote last edited by queermunist@lemmy.ml
                        #56

                        Recognizing that religion had an important place in the historical development of society (culture, government, labor, ownership, law, family, etc) and that being religious has a material basis that exists outside of our own ability to choose our beliefs.

                        Atheism isn't a choice. Theism isn't a choice. They are just products of our material conditions.

                        So, I don't try to convince anyone about atheism; I'm honestly somewhat jealous that religious people can still believe in anything.

                        1 Reply Last reply
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                        • 3 3dmvr@lemm.ee

                          lol, man didn not even mentions jewish ppl expicitly and you threw in antisemite lmaoo

                          S This user is from outside of this forum
                          S This user is from outside of this forum
                          saleh@feddit.org
                          wrote last edited by
                          #57

                          The Torah is where the ten commandments first are written down. By Jews in Hebrew.

                          And just not mentioning a group explicitly, does not mean you dont attack them.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          1
                          • sundray@lemmus.orgS sundray@lemmus.org

                            Bob the Angry Flower - The First Commandment

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                            stupidcasey@lemmy.world
                            wrote last edited by
                            #58

                            This is my first wife Yahweh, and my second wife Amen-Ra.

                            1 Reply Last reply
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                            • C case@lemmynsfw.com

                              Wait wait wait, did Judaism invent the basic concept of a checksum?

                              That is... very interesting. I know numerology and the like are very popular parts of Jewish occultism.

                              U This user is from outside of this forum
                              U This user is from outside of this forum
                              uruanna@lemmy.world
                              wrote last edited by
                              #59

                              It's not specific to Judaism, any oral tradition relies on the length of a sentence and rhyming and repetitions to make sure you got the right phrasing. That's how you come up with poetry and alexandrine and all that, everyone uses it.

                              1 Reply Last reply
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                              • sundray@lemmus.orgS sundray@lemmus.org

                                Bob the Angry Flower - The First Commandment

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                                A This user is from outside of this forum
                                archmageazor@lemmy.world
                                wrote last edited by
                                #60

                                Back in the day you would pick and choose the gods you worshipped, like from the greek or roman pantheon. But if you chose to worship God you would have to put him literally before the other gods.

                                1 Reply Last reply
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                                • sundray@lemmus.orgS sundray@lemmus.org

                                  Bob the Angry Flower - The First Commandment

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                                  hakunawazo@lemmy.world
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #61

                                  If Cthulhu is your number 2 you immediately need to check for hemmorhoids.

                                  _ 1 Reply Last reply
                                  6
                                  • sundray@lemmus.orgS sundray@lemmus.org

                                    Bob the Angry Flower - The First Commandment

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                                    philosaraptor7@lemm.ee
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #62

                                    This take is actually pretty close to the original reading. In the ancient near east it was a given that there were many deities. It's not that the worldview of the Bible is a strict monotheism but taht YHWH is the supreme God and the source of all.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • H humanspiral@lemmy.ca

                                      Yaweh was one of the sons of El in Caananite religion, which has the same Noah myth, and the religion/people is based on one of his son's decendants. El was accepted by Greeks as the same god as Zeus. Many other Caananite polytheistic gods had Greek equivalents.

                                      When Moses wrote the tablets, he was basically doing a religious coup to claim the Hebrew/Israelite "subgod" was the primary god. Denouncing Idolatry, and "thou shalt not covet" was also a rebelion against the main/historical Phoenecian/Caananite religion to when Israelites war against Phoenecians "do not covet their idols, destroy them".

                                      D This user is from outside of this forum
                                      D This user is from outside of this forum
                                      dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works
                                      wrote last edited by dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works
                                      #63

                                      "when Moses wrote the tablets"

                                      The historical context here is really interesting, but this line is a head scratcher. A) god didn't write the tablets, Moses did it himself, B) tacit support for historicity of Moses. It's like not the religious viewpoint, but not the secular one either. Though I may be splitting hairs about a nonessential clause here.

                                      absentbird@lemm.eeA H 2 Replies Last reply
                                      2
                                      • sundray@lemmus.orgS sundray@lemmus.org

                                        Bob the Angry Flower - The First Commandment

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                                        prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #64

                                        Yahweh was just one of many gods worshipped at that time. Which is why like 1/3 of the ten comandments are related to his own insecurities

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        21
                                        • S saleh@feddit.org

                                          The Torah has been preserved in Hebrew, but changed in writing over time. The Quran has been preserved in Arabic and the original text is preserved, which is also why the language is preserved.

                                          Your argument is factually wrong and calling all Jews, Muslims and Christians "fucking idiots" is racist and antisemitic.

                                          P This user is from outside of this forum
                                          P This user is from outside of this forum
                                          prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #65

                                          You seem to be looking for something to be offended by. Sad.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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