The #fediverse needs to come to terms with one thing: on content platforms, chronological ordering is probably good for your subscription feeds, but for the #discovery feed the average user actually WANTS an #algorithm.
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The big iffy issue about algorithms is how it gives vendors too much power. Basically a vendor can "play favorites" and prevent certain content creators from being discovered, or push their favorites.
Consider how vendors like YouTube and Instagram started to push the creators they wanted you to see - despite what the user might want to see.
In essence, my biggest reason for client side algorithms is to take that power out of the vendors hands.
But then my idea hit a wall, because I suddenly realized how big the fediverse could get and what burden it might put on platforms.
How about this though: spin off the discoverability database to itself and maintain it as an #OpenData project.
Anyone who wants to participate could mark their account or content as discoverable and be included.
There could be a CoC to prevent abuse and guarantees that creators wouldn't be excluded by virtue of licensing.
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But then my idea hit a wall, because I suddenly realized how big the fediverse could get and what burden it might put on platforms.
How about this though: spin off the discoverability database to itself and maintain it as an #OpenData project.
Anyone who wants to participate could mark their account or content as discoverable and be included.
There could be a CoC to prevent abuse and guarantees that creators wouldn't be excluded by virtue of licensing.
@hopland @miturian @BeAware @zilog80 someone made me aware of https://www.fediscovery.org/ so I guess it will be taken care of? but its already late, threads and bluesky taken all the thunder.
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@hopland @miturian @BeAware @zilog80 someone made me aware of https://www.fediscovery.org/ so I guess it will be taken care of? but its already late, threads and bluesky taken all the thunder.
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@BeAware @polarity @hopland @zilog80 I think a huge part of this is funding. To move quickly you need someone to be able to dedicate a lot of time. To do that, they usually either need someone to pay them to do it or they need to think that there might be a payout down the line. As long as the fediverse doesn't have a monetization scheme, you can't move quickly on anything. An API for search where people could then monetize their own third-party search solution could be a good step.
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@BeAware @polarity @hopland @zilog80 I think a huge part of this is funding. To move quickly you need someone to be able to dedicate a lot of time. To do that, they usually either need someone to pay them to do it or they need to think that there might be a payout down the line. As long as the fediverse doesn't have a monetization scheme, you can't move quickly on anything. An API for search where people could then monetize their own third-party search solution could be a good step.
@miturian @polarity @hopland @zilog80 also the fact that the ones who do develop on the platform for very little benefit and build discovery features, get harassed and threatened until they shut their project down or make it so it's basically unusable.
See: BridgyFed opt-in bullshit, FediOnFire that was killed about a month ago, and more recently, Fedicate which was harassed and threatened till they changed the entire purpose of the project.
There's many things and people working against building on an open platform unfortunately.
️Edit: more info on Fedicate threats and harassment right from the harasser https://social.ginny.today/@ginny/113955484621464018
FediOnFire harassment details https://wedistribute.org/2025/02/fedionfire-shutdown/
And the bridgyfed debacle should be well documented at this point, but I don't have a link easily available.
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@miturian @polarity @hopland @zilog80 also the fact that the ones who do develop on the platform for very little benefit and build discovery features, get harassed and threatened until they shut their project down or make it so it's basically unusable.
See: BridgyFed opt-in bullshit, FediOnFire that was killed about a month ago, and more recently, Fedicate which was harassed and threatened till they changed the entire purpose of the project.
There's many things and people working against building on an open platform unfortunately.
️Edit: more info on Fedicate threats and harassment right from the harasser https://social.ginny.today/@ginny/113955484621464018
FediOnFire harassment details https://wedistribute.org/2025/02/fedionfire-shutdown/
And the bridgyfed debacle should be well documented at this point, but I don't have a link easily available.
I think the one thing you have to be aware of in regards to denizens of the #fediverse is that they are verily fatigued by large commercial platforms because of the #ads, the predatory #algorithms, #darkdesignpatterns, #tracking all stemming from the need to #monetize.
Each of those points are important because something's shouldn't be monetized, like #databrokering.
That's why I am suggesting client side algorithmic discovery, or a private and safe alt.
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I think the one thing you have to be aware of in regards to denizens of the #fediverse is that they are verily fatigued by large commercial platforms because of the #ads, the predatory #algorithms, #darkdesignpatterns, #tracking all stemming from the need to #monetize.
Each of those points are important because something's shouldn't be monetized, like #databrokering.
That's why I am suggesting client side algorithmic discovery, or a private and safe alt.
We can fall back to Silicon Valley, we can fall back to Wall Street, we can fall back to London City, but the great thing about the fediverse is that people can ignore all that, filter it away, etc.
People don't want to go back to #PredatoryMonetization - and nor should they.
This means that we have to work within those parameters, and there is the chance to actually innovate and quite possibly disrupt markets - in a good, ethical and moral way.
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We can fall back to Silicon Valley, we can fall back to Wall Street, we can fall back to London City, but the great thing about the fediverse is that people can ignore all that, filter it away, etc.
People don't want to go back to #PredatoryMonetization - and nor should they.
This means that we have to work within those parameters, and there is the chance to actually innovate and quite possibly disrupt markets - in a good, ethical and moral way.
If we then come up with some great idea for say a client side algorithm, or some alternative ad networking technology, you can then wrap that up in a plan for an organization and apply for funding.
From that you can start figuring out the various ways to make a business off the resulting systems.
But they have to be open, give power to the user and allow for competition. This is why #OpenSource is so important, because it levels the playing field.
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If we then come up with some great idea for say a client side algorithm, or some alternative ad networking technology, you can then wrap that up in a plan for an organization and apply for funding.
From that you can start figuring out the various ways to make a business off the resulting systems.
But they have to be open, give power to the user and allow for competition. This is why #OpenSource is so important, because it levels the playing field.
So if we really believe in a free market, we should believe that markets being made cannot be free, for the user, the producer or the publisher. They can verily be systems that are predatory and exploitative of one or more parts.
We cannot exploit the user, the creator or the publisher. This cannot be overstated. In the west it's gotten too normal to centralise ownership and to exploit people. This is something we have to be mindful of.
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So if we really believe in a free market, we should believe that markets being made cannot be free, for the user, the producer or the publisher. They can verily be systems that are predatory and exploitative of one or more parts.
We cannot exploit the user, the creator or the publisher. This cannot be overstated. In the west it's gotten too normal to centralise ownership and to exploit people. This is something we have to be mindful of.
