When quote-posts become baked into #Mastodon and available via the API, I hope clients stop fetching quoted posts on their own.
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When quote-posts become baked into #Mastodon and available via the API, I hope clients stop fetching quoted posts on their own.
Part of Mastodon's implementation will be the ability for people to prevent quote-posting of their content, and to "withdraw" their posts from anywhere they were quoted.
"Faking" quote-posts by merely fetching the post object from within the client will not respect these preferences and intentions of the quoted user.
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When quote-posts become baked into #Mastodon and available via the API, I hope clients stop fetching quoted posts on their own.
Part of Mastodon's implementation will be the ability for people to prevent quote-posting of their content, and to "withdraw" their posts from anywhere they were quoted.
"Faking" quote-posts by merely fetching the post object from within the client will not respect these preferences and intentions of the quoted user.
@jsit
This can only be done if a post is public, or unlisted, correct? Only those who could see the post anyway would see a fetched post. So, if you want to "withdraw" a quoted post you would just have to have the ability to make it visible to followers only, or make it private. If a post is public anyone can fetch it anyway. -
@jsit
This can only be done if a post is public, or unlisted, correct? Only those who could see the post anyway would see a fetched post. So, if you want to "withdraw" a quoted post you would just have to have the ability to make it visible to followers only, or make it private. If a post is public anyone can fetch it anyway.@Ctrl_R Yes, of course anybody *can* fetch something that isn't followers-only. Just like you *can* log out of Twitter and see tweets from someone who has blocked you.
But adding that extra hurdle makes it inconvenient and therefore less likely.
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@Ctrl_R Yes, of course anybody *can* fetch something that isn't followers-only. Just like you *can* log out of Twitter and see tweets from someone who has blocked you.
But adding that extra hurdle makes it inconvenient and therefore less likely.
@Ctrl_R Anybody adequately motivated could easily steal my car, but I still lock the doors.
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@Ctrl_R Anybody adequately motivated could easily steal my car, but I still lock the doors.
@jsit
To me, locking your doors or hiding your car in a garage, is like posting to followers only, or privately. posting publicly is leaving your car in a busy public garage, with the doors open. -
@jsit
To me, locking your doors or hiding your car in a garage, is like posting to followers only, or privately. posting publicly is leaving your car in a busy public garage, with the doors open.@Ctrl_R This analogy could get messy if we explore it any longer, but my point is that impediments to doing bad things, even imperfect impediments, are good.
Responsible developers will make Mastodon clients that obey user’s wishes, and the extra effort required to find the quoted post will likely deter enough people to make the feature worthwhile.
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@Ctrl_R This analogy could get messy if we explore it any longer, but my point is that impediments to doing bad things, even imperfect impediments, are good.
Responsible developers will make Mastodon clients that obey user’s wishes, and the extra effort required to find the quoted post will likely deter enough people to make the feature worthwhile.
@jsit
I understand the point of view of making it a feature... I don't see why it is considered bad, though, to show a public post via a fetch when there is otherwise no other way implemented to quote a post. If the feature is implemented and a user marks a post as unquotable, then I'd understand it being bad form for a client to circumvent that and allow it to be quoted via a fetch anyway. -
@jsit
I understand the point of view of making it a feature... I don't see why it is considered bad, though, to show a public post via a fetch when there is otherwise no other way implemented to quote a post. If the feature is implemented and a user marks a post as unquotable, then I'd understand it being bad form for a client to circumvent that and allow it to be quoted via a fetch anyway.@Ctrl_R Oh, I mean, when Mastodon *does* have native quote posts available via their API, where the native user preferences are respected, then the third-party fetching should stop. It's deliberately circumventing a safety feature at that point.
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@Ctrl_R Oh, I mean, when Mastodon *does* have native quote posts available via their API, where the native user preferences are respected, then the third-party fetching should stop. It's deliberately circumventing a safety feature at that point.
@jsit @Ctrl_R well...the same can be said for bad actors/bad behaving users wanting to hide their bad behavior.
Crowdsourced moderation is very important to small instances and single user instances like mine that don't have multiple eyes on things at all times. These crowdsourced moderation strategies include linking to the offending posts for "proof" of the offensive behavior.
This could lead to people being able to hide their behavior and it worried me a bit.
Sure, there's still screenshots but we know how easy it is to edit those and I don't feel fully comfortable always trusting screenshots for stuff like that.
Renaud claimed that they are currently not thinking about tying "linking posts" to quote posts directly. So theoretically linking/fetching how it does currently, and quote posting, will both still be possible.
I can see how this can cause concern, however, I hope you see how it can be bad to take that ability away as well.
Renaud Chaput (@renchap@oisaur.com)
@BeAware@social.beaware.live So far, we are not planning to forbid linking to statuses if the person refuses to be quoted. A link is not a quote. There are still a lot of open questions (like, what is the UI behaviour if you paste such a link into the composer? Maybe we should ask the user if they want to transform it into a quote?). This is something we have in mind and will continue working on it. So far we mostly focused on the ActivityPub side of things.
Oisaur (oisaur.com)
