@joelving i’m trying to do protocol stuff, even knowledge modeling.

we have context, audience, to, cc, inReplyTo, tag, attachment — do we need quote/quoteOf?

To me, in Smithereen, it's a link preview that's getting some special treatment and that you create with a dedicated UI. The difference between quotes and link previews is that I don't do link previews yet. The semantic relationship is the same as when I link something in my own post. To quote something means to include it as part of your own post, possibly adding your own comment, to have a conversation about it with your followers.

@trwnh @darius I think the difference between a quote post and a simple link preview is that I expect the quote post to be more “live“. I think from a semantic perspective that means that whatever software is doing the reading understand that it is a post. I think (but I am not certain) that was missing right now, semantically, is about the post part, not the quoting per se.

@trwnh @darius In practical terms, I think the most important implication of that is that when I tap on it, my client should open it as a post, not a webpage. Also, embedded media should be live.

There are open UI questions about whether other things about the quoted post should be inherited by the parent, things like content warnings (probably) and @ mentions (probably not), but those all depend on semantically understanding that the thing is a post to start with.

@trwnh No, not always.

For instance, let's say a podcast makes a post about their new episode. I loved the episode so I want to share it to my followers.

I could just boost if, but instead I "quote post", adding: "whoa, great new episode of this podcast. I've you've ever been curious to check the show out this would be a good one to start with."

I would not consider that a "response" because it's not addressing the original poster

@trwnh For me, it’s exactly what it’s called: a quote. If I’m quoting someone else’s post, the relationship is closer to “quoting + citing the source”, but if I’m quoting my own post, the relationship is “quoting = highlighting a specific previous statement, e.g. as a follow-up”.

@djsundog so is it enough to change the `context`, or is there something else missing?

@trwnh the quote post is a commentary/reaction/repost+. A Quote-post only makes sense if the post you're quoting itself is necessary for your post to make sense. The relationship is important (otherwise a screenshot would work) it's kind of a reply that wants to either address a different audience, wants to shift the conversation to a different aspect of the original discourse etc.

@lanodan @erincandescent so is it basically `inReplyTo` but setting a different `context`

@trwnh is the relationship between a thing i wrote and another thing to which it’s related not a function of my intentions? like, if i “boost” a post, without any other context, that act has a pretty limited meaning; it’s essentially broadcasting. but if i “endorse” a post, the act of endorsing rather than simply boosting conveys a distinct relationship between my action and that post; it’s distinct because endorsement means something very specific

@erincandescent that is indeed how i see it in most cases. in as2 we can probably reply in a different context

@trwnh @djsundog I am not sold on the idea that changing `context` in the encoded data actually does anything other than provide a hint to clients that "something ineffable has changed, do what thou wilt". I think changing `context` is necessary but not sufficient. HOWEVER, I am open to the possibility that the real work is on implementations to rigorously consider what `context` is and how it should inform their logic and rendering

@Craigp so is it just setting a different `context` or is there more to it?

@t54r4n1 i don’t like it either but i am trying to describe the general case where no one is dunking and the quoter is actually below the quote.

to the extent that such a thing exists, anyway

@grishka so it’s just a link then? possibly a sort of attachment?

@trwnh I'd say that that is simultaneously too narrow and too wide. Too narrow if it's to say something about intent, and too wide if it's about display.
I don't think the first (intent) is possible to enumerate, but the second absolutely is. Then I'd maybe simply do something like `rel` for an anchor and use `display='embed'`, `display='preview'` or `display='link'`, maybe as links in a context-collection or something.

@trwnh I would say “incorporates as direct context” rather than the “refers to as linked context” that a link implies. It was stronger when Twitter had the 140-character limit, which led style guides to declare that a canonical reference to a tweet was to include the entire tweet.

@trwnh I see that AS2 links already have a rel property. Might be usable here?

@a @darius so a link where the href is a “post” and then you fetch the “live” data instead of embedding a frozen repr

@darius @trwnh I agree! it'd be one thing if the systems involved defined the constituent parts of a context, so that there'd be value in possibly providing a link to the original context, but I'm pretty sure that's not a thing here (yet?) so it's definitely not sufficient in and of itself. I personally don't think "quote post" is anything more than "link to thing I guarantee is an activitypub object rather than some other type of web content", and I'd prefer to see the fediverse move to rendering embedded references to other fediverse content inline, but that it should be all client rendering decisions ultimately anyway, I think.