It might be too late for the Threadiverse...
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It was a rather sombering thread, that echoed quite a bit of what I've been saying about .ml, the Triad, general toxicity of their Tankie "ideology" for months now.
I know @ptz@dubvee.org was speaking of general toxicity, but the Triad is a huge chunk of it, the culture they create...festers it. They comprise the bulk of the hostility, I've personally seen it over and over and over again. All the "Just go back to Reddit" or "just another lib Redditor refugee" comments for someone that dared to have nuance.
Hell, I saw hex users fucking cheering .ee's shutdown because it was some sort of psyop/CIA/fed/lib/"They didn't perfectly agree with me" instance. They call feddit.org a "Nazi Zionist" instance for the crime....of not wanting to be arrested and complying with German law...
I haven't looked to see if they've started any "celebratory" posts about Dubvee yet and I also don't really want to, if they're there, I already know what they're going to say in it -_-
Unfortunately, I fear the problem was far worse than I thought.
Ptz speculated that the toxicity has "metastasized". And you know what? He might be right, it seemed to be a lot better off 2 years ago, now....now I feel we might be losing the battle against the toxicity and I don't think PieFed will be enough. Complacency has set in
My hope was that with enough instances defederating from .ml and the rest of the Triad, it would be a tad easier to take down toxic Tankies, trolls and their alts. But, few wanted to burn the bridge with the toxic main devs' instance and now it might be too late. (Cheers to @Illecors@lemmy.cafe and the lemmy.cafe instance, one of the few of note to actually defederate from the entire triad!)
Like ptz said and I fully agree with, this place started with promise 2 years ago, but it appears to be ultimately morphing into 4chan (or like I've been saying, Voat 2.0) after all
Oh well, I've got some thick ass skin so I'll probably be here till the end, till the last sane instance shuts down.
I'll see you there @dessalines@lemmy.ml
/Sadmemerant
Heck, maybe I'll do a hail Mary and start an instance on a custom fork of lemmy with "normie proof" onboarding while dumping a few hundred in ADs (Maybe even on Reddit itself, HA!). I'll flood this place with "normies" LMAO
It was a rather sombering thread, that echoed quite a bit of what I've been saying about .ml, the Triad, general toxicity of their Tankie "ideology" for months now.
A lot of what Patrick is referring to goes well beyond the 'tankie triad' (two of which are banned from most instances anyway).
Hell, I saw hex users fucking cheering .ee's shutdown because it was some sort of psyop/CIA/fed/lib/"They didn't perfectly agree with me" instance. They call feddit.org a "Nazi Zionist" instance for the crime....of not wanting to be arrested and complying with German law...
And yet all that happened was with lemm.ee shutting down, hexbear became more isolated because lemm.ee actually federated with them.
Outside of .ml, most tankies are despised across the fediverse.
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If anyone thinks this is turning into 4chan or even worse, voat, you seriously have not experienced either of those.
Or even Twitter these days.
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Now look at social media. You'll see irrationals infesting every platform. Reddit in special encourages it, and most lemmings are from Reddit.
True, but on other social media, there's millions of users and it's a LOT easier to dilute the toxicity when a SMs D/MAU is being measured in the millions
Why this matters: because I believe people here are focusing too much on .ml and Hexbear, without noticing the problem would still persist without them.
Yea, but I really think .ml not being defederated from is causing a bit of a feedback loop encouraging similar toxic behavior in other users for their own, even non-Tankie, reasons
Yea, but I really think .ml not being defederated from is causing a bit of a feedback loop encouraging similar toxic behavior in other users for their own, even non-Tankie, reasons
Can I just say that if instances start flipping from being lemmy instances to piefed instances, as is slowly happening, then lemmy.ml will potentially find itself more marginalised and the questions of defederation will happen. As it stands now, lemmy.ml is the foundational instance for the lemmy software and that is likely the primary reason why many instances won't pull the plug.
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I usually don’t get bothered by people on the Internet, but holy fucking shit how I was absolutely going crazy over the fact that people unironically shill North Korea.
I'm Korean. We are under constant threat of shit balloons and missiles. They punish people and their family members for trying to leave the country. How can one possibly look at that and say, "Yep, that's fine"?
It's more ugly that they are also implicitly saying that you, as a Korean, should just become the plaything of Kim Jong Un. That really you should actually just become a puppet of them.
Said safe and sound somewhere from a bedroom in the USA.
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In the linked post, I can definitely agree that a lot of people here seem to be arguing in bad faith, and Ive seen it from various instances, not just the tankie traid (although I won't deny they are a part of it). For myself, I dont know how to tell the "subtle" trolls apart from people who are really just misinformed. I dont like assuming everyone knows everything and is purposefully trying to get a rise out of me. I do know I sit and think before I post, and sometimes I'll write a post or a comment, and sit on it and end up deleting it because I feel it isnt worth having to interact with someone who could be trolling, but I feel like I still end up arguing with people who are as the OOP put it, arguing in bad faith, talking in absolutes, and calling for violence. I dont really know how to approach it because I do use reporting sometimes, although 9 times out of 10 it feels like nothing comes of it. Just a shitty situation.
For myself, I dont know how to tell the “subtle” trolls apart from people who are really just misinformed.
Based on my decades of experience anyone who could be described as a 'subtle' troll is just misinformed people. So many people expect everyone to know everything they do that malicious intent is assumed when anyone disagrees with them that accusations of trolling are tossed out like cheap bubble gum at a small town parade.
If a 'troll' seems subtle, just assume they are misinformed!
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I usually don’t get bothered by people on the Internet, but holy fucking shit how I was absolutely going crazy over the fact that people unironically shill North Korea.
I'm Korean. We are under constant threat of shit balloons and missiles. They punish people and their family members for trying to leave the country. How can one possibly look at that and say, "Yep, that's fine"?
B-b-but on the other hand, someone got a splinter somewhere in your country, so... you know... bOtH sIdEs SaMe?
(logic is not their strong suite, so much as loudly repeating something until people stop arguing back, at which point they declare victory, feel emboldened, and push even further)
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.ml has/had a lot of entirely normal people as a lot of people went to it before and during the reddit exodus and set up communities there, myself included.
A lot of them have since left. If they choose to inhabit a Nazi bar though, that is entirely their choice? But I should have the ability to have my own choices too, and not shift the Overton window by having to be on an instance that federates with them.
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From the day those protests started Lemmy was far far worse than Reddit for anyone but further left progressives. I have fat more often been called a Nazi here for like warm takes.
It's a spectrum and Lemmy is definitely a far more toxic place then reddit is if you don't agree.yep yep! ive been called a nazi because I psoted about the Green Party lol
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TIL dubvee is shutting down.
shutdown today actually is what people have been sayin. it doesn't load for me igh now
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The dubvee shutdown posts makes some valid point, but I disagree on a few others.
The communities I'm in are mostly safe from toxic users
- !movies@piefed.social
- !casualconversation@piefed.social
- !wholesome@reddthat.com
- !lego@piefed.social
- !football@sopuli.xyz
I avoid news and politics, that probably helps a lot on that regard
This might be a call for mods to keep an eye on reports, and for users to post and comment on well moderated community. !fedigrow@lemmy.zip can help.
It's sad to see Admiral Patrick go, but it's not all doom and gloom.
Reddit keeps enshittifying (DM shutdown, UK age verification), we might see new people come here soon.
UK age verification
Isn't that an issue that literally all platforms that are active in the UK have to deal with, unless they are exclusively doing content that is considered appropriate for children? Or did Reddit do something that is extra-bad?
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UK age verification
Isn't that an issue that literally all platforms that are active in the UK have to deal with, unless they are exclusively doing content that is considered appropriate for children? Or did Reddit do something that is extra-bad?
Not an expert, but from what I've heard, if you don't allow NSFW content you don't have to comply ?
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The first time I found out that dubvee existed was when they banned me from all of their communities. And it sounds like they're just being soft skinned instead of just defederating the tankie instances. I'd argue having tankie instances is a good thing. It keeps them contained and easy to block.
Yea, no, I know you and whatever ban was handed down was justly deserved.
It keeps them contained and easy to block.
It's a failed theory, they all have alts upon alts, and block isn't a block on Lemmy
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We (slrpnk.net) are only planning to move to Piefed due to technical annoyances with Lemmy the software. As I wrote above, the level of toxicity we see on our instance is really not so bad.
But is that from a "normie" perspective or from a regular Threadiverse user perspective? Because from a regular Threadiverse user perspective many have become desensitized I feel, and that's also another aspect of the problem.
Because ptz has been operating on tamping down toxicity with the goal of it being attractive to the average user.
The Threadiverse will not actually achieve much without the "normies"
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Absolutely agreed. I've ran in to some decent people in .ml, but the tankies are ridiculous. Decent instances need to defederate to both remove their trash extremely biased content and to force those goons to make alt accounts and live under sane peoples' rules if they want to interact with more normal people.
Wish I could easily block all .ml communities (not the comments and posts that .ml users make on other instances, I want to be able to downvote and report them if other non-tankie users can see them).
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Yea, no, I know you and whatever ban was handed down was justly deserved.
It keeps them contained and easy to block.
It's a failed theory, they all have alts upon alts, and block isn't a block on Lemmy
You're the same dude who took over the conservative forum on Lemmy.world and banned me because I was criticising an atheism post on there
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If anyone thinks this is turning into 4chan or even worse, voat, you seriously have not experienced either of those.
If you put an average person in here with a minimal idea of what 4chan is, what would they say this place is like?
When they inevitably get scared off because some .ml users were going off ranting about how such such article about NK that got posted was actually western propaganda and that "NK is all good actually", what do you think they'll tell others?
This isnt about me or you, we have thick skin and can deal with the BS toxicity and have even become desensitized to it so it doesn't seem that bad
But we are not the average person and if we want the Threadiverse to succeed and maybe even threaten Reddit a bit, we need the normal users
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If you put an average person in here with a minimal idea of what 4chan is, what would they say this place is like?
When they inevitably get scared off because some .ml users were going off ranting about how such such article about NK that got posted was actually western propaganda and that "NK is all good actually", what do you think they'll tell others?
This isnt about me or you, we have thick skin and can deal with the BS toxicity and have even become desensitized to it so it doesn't seem that bad
But we are not the average person and if we want the Threadiverse to succeed and maybe even threaten Reddit a bit, we need the normal users
If you put an average person in here with a minimal idea of what 4chan is, what would they say this place is like?
What is that supposed to argue? That someone random might be ignorant?
But we are not the average person and if we want the Threadiverse to succeed and maybe even threaten Reddit a bit, we need the normal users
That's all well and good, but we're still, nowhere near 4chan, voat or even Twitter. Claiming that lemmy is "just as bad as voat" is nonsense and just serves to make people like me dismiss their opinions as someone ignorant and exaggerating.
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It was a rather sombering thread, that echoed quite a bit of what I've been saying about .ml, the Triad, general toxicity of their Tankie "ideology" for months now.
I know @ptz@dubvee.org was speaking of general toxicity, but the Triad is a huge chunk of it, the culture they create...festers it. They comprise the bulk of the hostility, I've personally seen it over and over and over again. All the "Just go back to Reddit" or "just another lib Redditor refugee" comments for someone that dared to have nuance.
Hell, I saw hex users fucking cheering .ee's shutdown because it was some sort of psyop/CIA/fed/lib/"They didn't perfectly agree with me" instance. They call feddit.org a "Nazi Zionist" instance for the crime....of not wanting to be arrested and complying with German law...
I haven't looked to see if they've started any "celebratory" posts about Dubvee yet and I also don't really want to, if they're there, I already know what they're going to say in it -_-
Unfortunately, I fear the problem was far worse than I thought.
Ptz speculated that the toxicity has "metastasized". And you know what? He might be right, it seemed to be a lot better off 2 years ago, now....now I feel we might be losing the battle against the toxicity and I don't think PieFed will be enough. Complacency has set in
My hope was that with enough instances defederating from .ml and the rest of the Triad, it would be a tad easier to take down toxic Tankies, trolls and their alts. But, few wanted to burn the bridge with the toxic main devs' instance and now it might be too late. (Cheers to @Illecors@lemmy.cafe and the lemmy.cafe instance, one of the few of note to actually defederate from the entire triad!)
Like ptz said and I fully agree with, this place started with promise 2 years ago, but it appears to be ultimately morphing into 4chan (or like I've been saying, Voat 2.0) after all
Oh well, I've got some thick ass skin so I'll probably be here till the end, till the last sane instance shuts down.
I'll see you there @dessalines@lemmy.ml
/Sadmemerant
Heck, maybe I'll do a hail Mary and start an instance on a custom fork of lemmy with "normie proof" onboarding while dumping a few hundred in ADs (Maybe even on Reddit itself, HA!). I'll flood this place with "normies" LMAO
Honestly, I got banned from that instance after down voting several posts I disagreed with, which is what down vote is there for, and dude told me to fuck off in the notice like I was running a script or something. I don't personally care, but I also have zero sympathy for someone on the internet being that sensitive or heavy handed. Probably didn't deserve whatever toxic nonsense they'd been exposed to, but still, based on my interactions with em, good riddance.
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You're the same dude who took over the conservative forum on Lemmy.world and banned me because I was criticising an atheism post on there
I sure did, I nipped a transphobic comment before it devolved into a full blown argument.
You are the "pORn iS A SiN" "HOmOSeXUalItY MakES jEsUS CrY" user. You are one of the ones they are talking about that is "subtle" in their trolling.
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If you put an average person in here with a minimal idea of what 4chan is, what would they say this place is like?
What is that supposed to argue? That someone random might be ignorant?
But we are not the average person and if we want the Threadiverse to succeed and maybe even threaten Reddit a bit, we need the normal users
That's all well and good, but we're still, nowhere near 4chan, voat or even Twitter. Claiming that lemmy is "just as bad as voat" is nonsense and just serves to make people like me dismiss their opinions as someone ignorant and exaggerating.
I hope you're right
