It might be too late for the Threadiverse...
-
You're the same dude who took over the conservative forum on Lemmy.world and banned me because I was criticising an atheism post on there
I sure did, I nipped a transphobic comment before it devolved into a full blown argument.
You are the "pORn iS A SiN" "HOmOSeXUalItY MakES jEsUS CrY" user. You are one of the ones they are talking about that is "subtle" in their trolling.
-
If you put an average person in here with a minimal idea of what 4chan is, what would they say this place is like?
What is that supposed to argue? That someone random might be ignorant?
But we are not the average person and if we want the Threadiverse to succeed and maybe even threaten Reddit a bit, we need the normal users
That's all well and good, but we're still, nowhere near 4chan, voat or even Twitter. Claiming that lemmy is "just as bad as voat" is nonsense and just serves to make people like me dismiss their opinions as someone ignorant and exaggerating.
I hope you're right
-
Not an expert, but from what I've heard, if you don't allow NSFW content you don't have to comply ?
NSFW content as they define it? It's one thing to allow porn, but e.g. tumblr had a whole thing about banning transition timelines (AFAIK including ones that only had clothed pictures) and many consider any kind of sex education inappropriate for children. Plus the whole issue of violence and gore, which is a common theme in the news.
I have little faith about the UK being reasonable about this. And AFAIK it's not enough to ban certain types of content, they also have pretty steep requirements for how fast a website has to moderate it if users post disallowed content, with hefty fines if you don't comply well enough that would immediately bankrupt many smaller sites depending on how it's enforced.
-
Not an expert, but from what I've heard, if you don't allow NSFW content you don't have to comply ?
Per the UK definitions, the concept of "NSFW" is deranged. I made a post on what Reddit is supposedly going to do here.
-
The dubvee shutdown posts makes some valid point, but I disagree on a few others.
The communities I'm in are mostly safe from toxic users
- !movies@piefed.social
- !casualconversation@piefed.social
- !wholesome@reddthat.com
- !lego@piefed.social
- !football@sopuli.xyz
I avoid news and politics, that probably helps a lot on that regard
This might be a call for mods to keep an eye on reports, and for users to post and comment on well moderated community. !fedigrow@lemmy.zip can help.
It's sad to see Admiral Patrick go, but it's not all doom and gloom.
Reddit keeps enshittifying (DM shutdown, UK age verification), we might see new people come here soon.
I avoid news and politics, that probably helps a lot on that regard
Honestly, same. As an ML user (this is my UK alt), I never really saw any of toxicity described by so many others, but I guess I just learned early on to put my filters up and have been living in my own bubble within ML.
If a place gets toxic, I tend to just leave instead of doubling down, and that I think is a pattern that might be alien to some because how reddit used to function: you couldn't just leave reddit politics-wise because the frontpage literally hammered you with it, so you'd have to stand your ground and fight until users or mods waded in. But here? You can leave lemmy politics-wise because the frontpage is either your subs or local posts filtered through your block lists.
I'm very happy in my bubble, and it does genuinely confuse me when someone says "oh, you're from ML, are you?" and I think "yeah... and it's mostly quiet, just the way I like it"
-
!gaming@lemmy.world has been pretty innocuous, and I also like the ADHD and autism memes. But that's it for me. And I never browse /all, only Subscribed and Local.
I occasionally browse /all to find new communities to subscribe to. Just don't go to the posts/comments
-
In the linked post, I can definitely agree that a lot of people here seem to be arguing in bad faith, and Ive seen it from various instances, not just the tankie traid (although I won't deny they are a part of it). For myself, I dont know how to tell the "subtle" trolls apart from people who are really just misinformed. I dont like assuming everyone knows everything and is purposefully trying to get a rise out of me. I do know I sit and think before I post, and sometimes I'll write a post or a comment, and sit on it and end up deleting it because I feel it isnt worth having to interact with someone who could be trolling, but I feel like I still end up arguing with people who are as the OOP put it, arguing in bad faith, talking in absolutes, and calling for violence. I dont really know how to approach it because I do use reporting sometimes, although 9 times out of 10 it feels like nothing comes of it. Just a shitty situation.
I don't argue anymore, it's not worth the time and the trolls/assholes are pretty obvious so I just report them.
-
It was a rather sombering thread, that echoed quite a bit of what I've been saying about .ml, the Triad, general toxicity of their Tankie "ideology" for months now.
I know @ptz@dubvee.org was speaking of general toxicity, but the Triad is a huge chunk of it, the culture they create...festers it. They comprise the bulk of the hostility, I've personally seen it over and over and over again. All the "Just go back to Reddit" or "just another lib Redditor refugee" comments for someone that dared to have nuance.
Hell, I saw hex users fucking cheering .ee's shutdown because it was some sort of psyop/CIA/fed/lib/"They didn't perfectly agree with me" instance. They call feddit.org a "Nazi Zionist" instance for the crime....of not wanting to be arrested and complying with German law...
I haven't looked to see if they've started any "celebratory" posts about Dubvee yet and I also don't really want to, if they're there, I already know what they're going to say in it -_-
Unfortunately, I fear the problem was far worse than I thought.
Ptz speculated that the toxicity has "metastasized". And you know what? He might be right, it seemed to be a lot better off 2 years ago, now....now I feel we might be losing the battle against the toxicity and I don't think PieFed will be enough. Complacency has set in
My hope was that with enough instances defederating from .ml and the rest of the Triad, it would be a tad easier to take down toxic Tankies, trolls and their alts. But, few wanted to burn the bridge with the toxic main devs' instance and now it might be too late. (Cheers to @Illecors@lemmy.cafe and the lemmy.cafe instance, one of the few of note to actually defederate from the entire triad!)
Like ptz said and I fully agree with, this place started with promise 2 years ago, but it appears to be ultimately morphing into 4chan (or like I've been saying, Voat 2.0) after all
Oh well, I've got some thick ass skin so I'll probably be here till the end, till the last sane instance shuts down.
I'll see you there @dessalines@lemmy.ml
/Sadmemerant
Heck, maybe I'll do a hail Mary and start an instance on a custom fork of lemmy with "normie proof" onboarding while dumping a few hundred in ADs (Maybe even on Reddit itself, HA!). I'll flood this place with "normies" LMAO
Just the amount of self reflection i'd expect from you. You are a toxic bully yourself.
-
A lot of them have since left. If they choose to inhabit a Nazi bar though, that is entirely their choice? But I should have the ability to have my own choices too, and not shift the Overton window by having to be on an instance that federates with them.
The point is that, like me, they may not have noticed. If you only subscribe to communities of interest and dont browse everything then you may not ever even notice. I only found out because I wanted to switch instance and after switching i saw how hated .ml was by accident.
-
I sure did, I nipped a transphobic comment before it devolved into a full blown argument.
You are the "pORn iS A SiN" "HOmOSeXUalItY MakES jEsUS CrY" user. You are one of the ones they are talking about that is "subtle" in their trolling.
It wasn't a transphobic comment. It was a response to openly mocking people's choice to raise their children Christian.
-
It was a rather sombering thread, that echoed quite a bit of what I've been saying about .ml, the Triad, general toxicity of their Tankie "ideology" for months now.
I know @ptz@dubvee.org was speaking of general toxicity, but the Triad is a huge chunk of it, the culture they create...festers it. They comprise the bulk of the hostility, I've personally seen it over and over and over again. All the "Just go back to Reddit" or "just another lib Redditor refugee" comments for someone that dared to have nuance.
Hell, I saw hex users fucking cheering .ee's shutdown because it was some sort of psyop/CIA/fed/lib/"They didn't perfectly agree with me" instance. They call feddit.org a "Nazi Zionist" instance for the crime....of not wanting to be arrested and complying with German law...
I haven't looked to see if they've started any "celebratory" posts about Dubvee yet and I also don't really want to, if they're there, I already know what they're going to say in it -_-
Unfortunately, I fear the problem was far worse than I thought.
Ptz speculated that the toxicity has "metastasized". And you know what? He might be right, it seemed to be a lot better off 2 years ago, now....now I feel we might be losing the battle against the toxicity and I don't think PieFed will be enough. Complacency has set in
My hope was that with enough instances defederating from .ml and the rest of the Triad, it would be a tad easier to take down toxic Tankies, trolls and their alts. But, few wanted to burn the bridge with the toxic main devs' instance and now it might be too late. (Cheers to @Illecors@lemmy.cafe and the lemmy.cafe instance, one of the few of note to actually defederate from the entire triad!)
Like ptz said and I fully agree with, this place started with promise 2 years ago, but it appears to be ultimately morphing into 4chan (or like I've been saying, Voat 2.0) after all
Oh well, I've got some thick ass skin so I'll probably be here till the end, till the last sane instance shuts down.
I'll see you there @dessalines@lemmy.ml
/Sadmemerant
Heck, maybe I'll do a hail Mary and start an instance on a custom fork of lemmy with "normie proof" onboarding while dumping a few hundred in ADs (Maybe even on Reddit itself, HA!). I'll flood this place with "normies" LMAO
Yeah. I started seeing Tankie comments from .world and .shitjustworks suggesting that France, Germany and Ukraine have a "cult of personality". The problem is spreading.
-
I occasionally browse /all to find new communities to subscribe to. Just don't go to the posts/comments
I don't want to block half the Fediverse, and I don't want to make myself spiral into despair by inadvertently exposing myself to depressing news so I stay off /all.
For finding new communities I use stuff like
!newcommunities@lemmy.world
!communitypromo@lemmy.ca
!trendingcommunities@feddit.nl (RIP) -
I avoid news and politics, that probably helps a lot on that regard
Honestly, same. As an ML user (this is my UK alt), I never really saw any of toxicity described by so many others, but I guess I just learned early on to put my filters up and have been living in my own bubble within ML.
If a place gets toxic, I tend to just leave instead of doubling down, and that I think is a pattern that might be alien to some because how reddit used to function: you couldn't just leave reddit politics-wise because the frontpage literally hammered you with it, so you'd have to stand your ground and fight until users or mods waded in. But here? You can leave lemmy politics-wise because the frontpage is either your subs or local posts filtered through your block lists.
I'm very happy in my bubble, and it does genuinely confuse me when someone says "oh, you're from ML, are you?" and I think "yeah... and it's mostly quiet, just the way I like it"
Yeah, as long as you don't engage in current world events there. You will likely not bounce of the alternate reality bubble they're trying to build. And even then the majority of the most toxic ones on the instance or off the instance. Are a rather small slice. They just unfortunately happen to be in charge of most of it so they have an outsized impact.
-
It was a rather sombering thread, that echoed quite a bit of what I've been saying about .ml, the Triad, general toxicity of their Tankie "ideology" for months now.
I know @ptz@dubvee.org was speaking of general toxicity, but the Triad is a huge chunk of it, the culture they create...festers it. They comprise the bulk of the hostility, I've personally seen it over and over and over again. All the "Just go back to Reddit" or "just another lib Redditor refugee" comments for someone that dared to have nuance.
Hell, I saw hex users fucking cheering .ee's shutdown because it was some sort of psyop/CIA/fed/lib/"They didn't perfectly agree with me" instance. They call feddit.org a "Nazi Zionist" instance for the crime....of not wanting to be arrested and complying with German law...
I haven't looked to see if they've started any "celebratory" posts about Dubvee yet and I also don't really want to, if they're there, I already know what they're going to say in it -_-
Unfortunately, I fear the problem was far worse than I thought.
Ptz speculated that the toxicity has "metastasized". And you know what? He might be right, it seemed to be a lot better off 2 years ago, now....now I feel we might be losing the battle against the toxicity and I don't think PieFed will be enough. Complacency has set in
My hope was that with enough instances defederating from .ml and the rest of the Triad, it would be a tad easier to take down toxic Tankies, trolls and their alts. But, few wanted to burn the bridge with the toxic main devs' instance and now it might be too late. (Cheers to @Illecors@lemmy.cafe and the lemmy.cafe instance, one of the few of note to actually defederate from the entire triad!)
Like ptz said and I fully agree with, this place started with promise 2 years ago, but it appears to be ultimately morphing into 4chan (or like I've been saying, Voat 2.0) after all
Oh well, I've got some thick ass skin so I'll probably be here till the end, till the last sane instance shuts down.
I'll see you there @dessalines@lemmy.ml
/Sadmemerant
Heck, maybe I'll do a hail Mary and start an instance on a custom fork of lemmy with "normie proof" onboarding while dumping a few hundred in ADs (Maybe even on Reddit itself, HA!). I'll flood this place with "normies" LMAO
echoed quite a bit of what I’ve been saying about .ml, the Triad, general toxicity of their Tankie “ideology” for months now.
Sorry, how is his post at all about the 'triad'?
Frankly, I think it's the constant attempts at instigating flame wars that I find to be so grating, not the users with opinions I find distasteful. I have no idea what ptz's specific experience was like, but seeing a prominent anti-tanky crusader project their personal vendetta onto this announcement is the kind of shit I find myself constantly rolling my eyes at.
Federated social media is built to facilitate community between people of different preferences, and it's exactly this constant crusading that's likely to extinguish it. You think you're on a mission of purification but it looks more like you're extinguishing what little enthusiasm there was for lemmy to begin with. Defederation is absolutely a tool for moderation, but making it your entire mission to push for it in every space you participate in is itself a suffocating cancer.
Let people decide for themselves what instances they want to commune with and stop pestering the entire platform into reflecting your personal tastes.
-
But is that from a "normie" perspective or from a regular Threadiverse user perspective? Because from a regular Threadiverse user perspective many have become desensitized I feel, and that's also another aspect of the problem.
Because ptz has been operating on tamping down toxicity with the goal of it being attractive to the average user.
The Threadiverse will not actually achieve much without the "normies"
Maybe stop posting for a few days and go touch grass. You're sounding hysterical.
-
Wish I could easily block all .ml communities (not the comments and posts that .ml users make on other instances, I want to be able to downvote and report them if other non-tankie users can see them).
You can. Just block the instance.
-
It was a rather sombering thread, that echoed quite a bit of what I've been saying about .ml, the Triad, general toxicity of their Tankie "ideology" for months now.
I know @ptz@dubvee.org was speaking of general toxicity, but the Triad is a huge chunk of it, the culture they create...festers it. They comprise the bulk of the hostility, I've personally seen it over and over and over again. All the "Just go back to Reddit" or "just another lib Redditor refugee" comments for someone that dared to have nuance.
Hell, I saw hex users fucking cheering .ee's shutdown because it was some sort of psyop/CIA/fed/lib/"They didn't perfectly agree with me" instance. They call feddit.org a "Nazi Zionist" instance for the crime....of not wanting to be arrested and complying with German law...
I haven't looked to see if they've started any "celebratory" posts about Dubvee yet and I also don't really want to, if they're there, I already know what they're going to say in it -_-
Unfortunately, I fear the problem was far worse than I thought.
Ptz speculated that the toxicity has "metastasized". And you know what? He might be right, it seemed to be a lot better off 2 years ago, now....now I feel we might be losing the battle against the toxicity and I don't think PieFed will be enough. Complacency has set in
My hope was that with enough instances defederating from .ml and the rest of the Triad, it would be a tad easier to take down toxic Tankies, trolls and their alts. But, few wanted to burn the bridge with the toxic main devs' instance and now it might be too late. (Cheers to @Illecors@lemmy.cafe and the lemmy.cafe instance, one of the few of note to actually defederate from the entire triad!)
Like ptz said and I fully agree with, this place started with promise 2 years ago, but it appears to be ultimately morphing into 4chan (or like I've been saying, Voat 2.0) after all
Oh well, I've got some thick ass skin so I'll probably be here till the end, till the last sane instance shuts down.
I'll see you there @dessalines@lemmy.ml
/Sadmemerant
Heck, maybe I'll do a hail Mary and start an instance on a custom fork of lemmy with "normie proof" onboarding while dumping a few hundred in ADs (Maybe even on Reddit itself, HA!). I'll flood this place with "normies" LMAO
Now I would really like to make a deepdive and see how did blackskyweb.xyz manage to become huge moderating force in AT proto(bluesky).
I was surprised that over those 2 years bluesky is kinda selfhostable. Maybe decision to make instances more important than people has doomed ActivityPub to become a toxic cesspool. I still remember how technology connections has resigned from mastodon over toxicity.
I saw this toxicity at the beginning and changed how I interact with the network. No controversial topics whatsoever, no OC memes as they will be bashed. Now I just repost stuff from tumblr and comment here and there.
-
The point is that, like me, they may not have noticed. If you only subscribe to communities of interest and dont browse everything then you may not ever even notice. I only found out because I wanted to switch instance and after switching i saw how hated .ml was by accident.
After all these years...?
Well, then it sucks for them to have to find out this way, but I do not want to allow such hostages to change my own determined path forward.
That said, PieFed, but crucially not Lemmy, allows for TRUE blocking of all users from an instance. Lemmy has something that is called that but surprise surprise, allows users to DM you, reply to your messages, thereby generating notifications, vote on your content, etc., and so is the absolute weakest "block" I have ever heard of (I am trying politely to say that it is a sham, and is no "block" at all). On PieFed though, any user that individually wants to defederate from an instance can do so - which is a game-changer (enticing me to join PieFed.social long before it was fully ready, since that one feature alone made it worth my while, in comparison to e.g. leaving the Threadiverse entirely b/c I was just so very tired of all the BS that I kept having to put up with everywhere).
-
Now I would really like to make a deepdive and see how did blackskyweb.xyz manage to become huge moderating force in AT proto(bluesky).
I was surprised that over those 2 years bluesky is kinda selfhostable. Maybe decision to make instances more important than people has doomed ActivityPub to become a toxic cesspool. I still remember how technology connections has resigned from mastodon over toxicity.
I saw this toxicity at the beginning and changed how I interact with the network. No controversial topics whatsoever, no OC memes as they will be bashed. Now I just repost stuff from tumblr and comment here and there.
Maybe a naive question, but how does Bluesky manage user bans from different instances? Is there a way to federate bans over the whole network?
-
I'll repeat a few things I've been saying about this. To keep it
short:less verbose:What people call "toxicity" online relies heavily on irrationality, from the aggressor and/or the target. And politics raises the stakes of everything, so irrationality + political engagement is specially prone to generate catty behaviour, name calling, uncalled combativeness, and all that crap.
Now look at social media. You'll see irrationals infesting every platform. Reddit in special encourages it, and most lemmings are from Reddit.
Why this matters: because I believe people here are focusing too much on .ml and Hexbear, without noticing the problem would still persist without them.
Yeah, while people can have their valid criticisms of the culture of various instances, we need to be extremely wary of the idea that the problem will be solved if we just isolate outselves from the folks we sit furthest from on the political spectrum. I've seen toxicity from folks on all sorts of instances, even if some have more (though I've honestly seen more from certain instances other than the triad)
Literally every platform has toxicity, regardless of its political makeup. If we want to improve the culture of this space we can't just scapegoat a couple instances (that to be fair, do seem to have big issues from what I've seen from other folks, though my interactions have been mostly cordial)
And leftist spaces seem to chronically struggle a lot with in-group fighting and toxicity because we're all driven by our care for issues of moral importance- which often lets us justify being shitty to one another if we can frame someone as the villain in the story of an issue we care about.
I think creating a culture that is unwelcoming of anti-social, bad faith behaviour regardless of whether we agree with the stance or not would help massively. But that is a difficult thing to create structure around doing.
