The dubvee shutdown posts makes some valid point, but I disagree on a few others.

The communities I'm in are mostly safe from toxic users

• !movies@piefed.social
• !casualconversation@piefed.social
• !wholesome@reddthat.com
• !lego@piefed.social
• !football@sopuli.xyz

I avoid news and politics, that probably helps a lot on that regard

This might be a call for mods to keep an eye on reports, and for users to post and comment on well moderated community. !fedigrow@lemmy.zip can help.

It's sad to see Admiral Patrick go, but it's not all doom and gloom.

Reddit keeps enshittifying (DM shutdown, UK age verification), we might see new people come here soon.

!gaming@lemmy.world has been pretty innocuous, and I also like the ADHD and autism memes. But that's it for me. And I never browse /all, only Subscribed and Local.

In the linked post, I can definitely agree that a lot of people here seem to be arguing in bad faith, and Ive seen it from various instances, not just the tankie traid (although I won't deny they are a part of it). For myself, I dont know how to tell the "subtle" trolls apart from people who are really just misinformed. I dont like assuming everyone knows everything and is purposefully trying to get a rise out of me. I do know I sit and think before I post, and sometimes I'll write a post or a comment, and sit on it and end up deleting it because I feel it isnt worth having to interact with someone who could be trolling, but I feel like I still end up arguing with people who are as the OOP put it, arguing in bad faith, talking in absolutes, and calling for violence. I dont really know how to approach it because I do use reporting sometimes, although 9 times out of 10 it feels like nothing comes of it. Just a shitty situation.

It was a rather sombering thread, that echoed quite a bit of what I've been saying about .ml, the Triad, general toxicity of their Tankie "ideology" for months now.

I know @ptz@dubvee.org was speaking of general toxicity, but the Triad is a huge chunk of it, the culture they create...festers it. They comprise the bulk of the hostility, I've personally seen it over and over and over again. All the "Just go back to Reddit" or "just another lib Redditor refugee" comments for someone that dared to have nuance.

Hell, I saw hex users fucking cheering .ee's shutdown because it was some sort of psyop/CIA/fed/lib/"They didn't perfectly agree with me" instance. They call feddit.org a "Nazi Zionist" instance for the crime....of not wanting to be arrested and complying with German law...

I haven't looked to see if they've started any "celebratory" posts about Dubvee yet and I also don't really want to, if they're there, I already know what they're going to say in it -_-

Unfortunately, I fear the problem was far worse than I thought.

Ptz speculated that the toxicity has "metastasized". And you know what? He might be right, it seemed to be a lot better off 2 years ago, now....now I feel we might be losing the battle against the toxicity and I don't think PieFed will be enough. Complacency has set in

My hope was that with enough instances defederating from .ml and the rest of the Triad, it would be a tad easier to take down toxic Tankies, trolls and their alts. But, few wanted to burn the bridge with the toxic main devs' instance and now it might be too late. (Cheers to @Illecors@lemmy.cafe and the lemmy.cafe instance, one of the few of note to actually defederate from the entire triad!)

Like ptz said and I fully agree with, this place started with promise 2 years ago, but it appears to be ultimately morphing into 4chan (or like I've been saying, Voat 2.0) after all

Oh well, I've got some thick ass skin so I'll probably be here till the end, till the last sane instance shuts down.

I'll see you there @dessalines@lemmy.ml

/Sadmemerant

Heck, maybe I'll do a hail Mary and start an instance on a custom fork of lemmy with "normie proof" onboarding while dumping a few hundred in ADs (Maybe even on Reddit itself, HA!). I'll flood this place with "normies" LMAO

A lot of them have since left. If they choose to inhabit a Nazi bar though, that is entirely their choice? But I should have the ability to have my own choices too, and not shift the Overton window by having to be on an instance that federates with them.

I sure did, I nipped a transphobic comment before it devolved into a full blown argument.

You are the "pORn iS A SiN" "HOmOSeXUalItY MakES jEsUS CrY" user. You are one of the ones they are talking about that is "subtle" in their trolling.

It was a rather sombering thread, that echoed quite a bit of what I've been saying about .ml, the Triad, general toxicity of their Tankie "ideology" for months now.

I know @ptz@dubvee.org was speaking of general toxicity, but the Triad is a huge chunk of it, the culture they create...festers it. They comprise the bulk of the hostility, I've personally seen it over and over and over again. All the "Just go back to Reddit" or "just another lib Redditor refugee" comments for someone that dared to have nuance.

Hell, I saw hex users fucking cheering .ee's shutdown because it was some sort of psyop/CIA/fed/lib/"They didn't perfectly agree with me" instance. They call feddit.org a "Nazi Zionist" instance for the crime....of not wanting to be arrested and complying with German law...

I haven't looked to see if they've started any "celebratory" posts about Dubvee yet and I also don't really want to, if they're there, I already know what they're going to say in it -_-

Unfortunately, I fear the problem was far worse than I thought.

Ptz speculated that the toxicity has "metastasized". And you know what? He might be right, it seemed to be a lot better off 2 years ago, now....now I feel we might be losing the battle against the toxicity and I don't think PieFed will be enough. Complacency has set in

My hope was that with enough instances defederating from .ml and the rest of the Triad, it would be a tad easier to take down toxic Tankies, trolls and their alts. But, few wanted to burn the bridge with the toxic main devs' instance and now it might be too late. (Cheers to @Illecors@lemmy.cafe and the lemmy.cafe instance, one of the few of note to actually defederate from the entire triad!)

Like ptz said and I fully agree with, this place started with promise 2 years ago, but it appears to be ultimately morphing into 4chan (or like I've been saying, Voat 2.0) after all

Oh well, I've got some thick ass skin so I'll probably be here till the end, till the last sane instance shuts down.

I'll see you there @dessalines@lemmy.ml

/Sadmemerant

Heck, maybe I'll do a hail Mary and start an instance on a custom fork of lemmy with "normie proof" onboarding while dumping a few hundred in ADs (Maybe even on Reddit itself, HA!). I'll flood this place with "normies" LMAO

I occasionally browse /all to find new communities to subscribe to. Just don't go to the posts/comments

I avoid news and politics, that probably helps a lot on that regard

Honestly, same. As an ML user (this is my UK alt), I never really saw any of toxicity described by so many others, but I guess I just learned early on to put my filters up and have been living in my own bubble within ML.

If a place gets toxic, I tend to just leave instead of doubling down, and that I think is a pattern that might be alien to some because how reddit used to function: you couldn't just leave reddit politics-wise because the frontpage literally hammered you with it, so you'd have to stand your ground and fight until users or mods waded in. But here? You can leave lemmy politics-wise because the frontpage is either your subs or local posts filtered through your block lists.

I'm very happy in my bubble, and it does genuinely confuse me when someone says "oh, you're from ML, are you?" and I think "yeah... and it's mostly quiet, just the way I like it"

It was a rather sombering thread, that echoed quite a bit of what I've been saying about .ml, the Triad, general toxicity of their Tankie "ideology" for months now.

I know @ptz@dubvee.org was speaking of general toxicity, but the Triad is a huge chunk of it, the culture they create...festers it. They comprise the bulk of the hostility, I've personally seen it over and over and over again. All the "Just go back to Reddit" or "just another lib Redditor refugee" comments for someone that dared to have nuance.

Hell, I saw hex users fucking cheering .ee's shutdown because it was some sort of psyop/CIA/fed/lib/"They didn't perfectly agree with me" instance. They call feddit.org a "Nazi Zionist" instance for the crime....of not wanting to be arrested and complying with German law...

I haven't looked to see if they've started any "celebratory" posts about Dubvee yet and I also don't really want to, if they're there, I already know what they're going to say in it -_-

Unfortunately, I fear the problem was far worse than I thought.

Ptz speculated that the toxicity has "metastasized". And you know what? He might be right, it seemed to be a lot better off 2 years ago, now....now I feel we might be losing the battle against the toxicity and I don't think PieFed will be enough. Complacency has set in

My hope was that with enough instances defederating from .ml and the rest of the Triad, it would be a tad easier to take down toxic Tankies, trolls and their alts. But, few wanted to burn the bridge with the toxic main devs' instance and now it might be too late. (Cheers to @Illecors@lemmy.cafe and the lemmy.cafe instance, one of the few of note to actually defederate from the entire triad!)

Like ptz said and I fully agree with, this place started with promise 2 years ago, but it appears to be ultimately morphing into 4chan (or like I've been saying, Voat 2.0) after all

Oh well, I've got some thick ass skin so I'll probably be here till the end, till the last sane instance shuts down.

I'll see you there @dessalines@lemmy.ml

/Sadmemerant

Heck, maybe I'll do a hail Mary and start an instance on a custom fork of lemmy with "normie proof" onboarding while dumping a few hundred in ADs (Maybe even on Reddit itself, HA!). I'll flood this place with "normies" LMAO

But is that from a "normie" perspective or from a regular Threadiverse user perspective? Because from a regular Threadiverse user perspective many have become desensitized I feel, and that's also another aspect of the problem.

Because ptz has been operating on tamping down toxicity with the goal of it being attractive to the average user.

The Threadiverse will not actually achieve much without the "normies"

Wish I could easily block all .ml communities (not the comments and posts that .ml users make on other instances, I want to be able to downvote and report them if other non-tankie users can see them).

It was a rather sombering thread, that echoed quite a bit of what I've been saying about .ml, the Triad, general toxicity of their Tankie "ideology" for months now.

I know @ptz@dubvee.org was speaking of general toxicity, but the Triad is a huge chunk of it, the culture they create...festers it. They comprise the bulk of the hostility, I've personally seen it over and over and over again. All the "Just go back to Reddit" or "just another lib Redditor refugee" comments for someone that dared to have nuance.

Hell, I saw hex users fucking cheering .ee's shutdown because it was some sort of psyop/CIA/fed/lib/"They didn't perfectly agree with me" instance. They call feddit.org a "Nazi Zionist" instance for the crime....of not wanting to be arrested and complying with German law...

I haven't looked to see if they've started any "celebratory" posts about Dubvee yet and I also don't really want to, if they're there, I already know what they're going to say in it -_-

Unfortunately, I fear the problem was far worse than I thought.

Ptz speculated that the toxicity has "metastasized". And you know what? He might be right, it seemed to be a lot better off 2 years ago, now....now I feel we might be losing the battle against the toxicity and I don't think PieFed will be enough. Complacency has set in

My hope was that with enough instances defederating from .ml and the rest of the Triad, it would be a tad easier to take down toxic Tankies, trolls and their alts. But, few wanted to burn the bridge with the toxic main devs' instance and now it might be too late. (Cheers to @Illecors@lemmy.cafe and the lemmy.cafe instance, one of the few of note to actually defederate from the entire triad!)

Like ptz said and I fully agree with, this place started with promise 2 years ago, but it appears to be ultimately morphing into 4chan (or like I've been saying, Voat 2.0) after all

Oh well, I've got some thick ass skin so I'll probably be here till the end, till the last sane instance shuts down.

I'll see you there @dessalines@lemmy.ml

/Sadmemerant

Heck, maybe I'll do a hail Mary and start an instance on a custom fork of lemmy with "normie proof" onboarding while dumping a few hundred in ADs (Maybe even on Reddit itself, HA!). I'll flood this place with "normies" LMAO

The point is that, like me, they may not have noticed. If you only subscribe to communities of interest and dont browse everything then you may not ever even notice. I only found out because I wanted to switch instance and after switching i saw how hated .ml was by accident.

Now I would really like to make a deepdive and see how did blackskyweb.xyz manage to become huge moderating force in AT proto(bluesky).

I was surprised that over those 2 years bluesky is kinda selfhostable. Maybe decision to make instances more important than people has doomed ActivityPub to become a toxic cesspool. I still remember how technology connections has resigned from mastodon over toxicity.

I saw this toxicity at the beginning and changed how I interact with the network. No controversial topics whatsoever, no OC memes as they will be bashed. Now I just repost stuff from tumblr and comment here and there.

I'll repeat a few things I've been saying about this. To keep it short: less verbose:

What people call "toxicity" online relies heavily on irrationality, from the aggressor and/or the target. And politics raises the stakes of everything, so irrationality + political engagement is specially prone to generate catty behaviour, name calling, uncalled combativeness, and all that crap.

Now look at social media. You'll see irrationals infesting every platform. Reddit in special encourages it, and most lemmings are from Reddit.

Why this matters: because I believe people here are focusing too much on .ml and Hexbear, without noticing the problem would still persist without them.

yep yep! ive been called a nazi because I psoted about the Green Party lol

Maybe a naive question, but how does Bluesky manage user bans from different instances? Is there a way to federate bans over the whole network?

Bluesky's network topology doesn't work like APub's, so this question doesn't really make sense. Like, what is the 'instance' here? The relay? The users' PDS? The AppView? I suppose the PDS provider could ban a user and this would then be indexed by the relay(s). We can argue all day about how decentralised the AT Protocol is, but Bluesky the platform makes no effort to be decentralised*.

* By decentralised I mean a platform controlled by multiple independent actors, a multi-stakeholder platform. Even if you use a non-Bluesky the company relay + app view, it's still centralised around whoever is hosting those.

I knew by asking the question we would get into the Bluesky components questions

Let's say tomorrow the feddit.uk team decides to self host a PDS provider.

Is it possible for the feddit.uk team to ban someone, or can that only be done by Bluesky? Would that ban be federated to other PDS providers?

Edit: I feel like Bluesky has the same issue than the Fediverse has with federated bans and alts, but because everybody uses Bluesky's centralized components, nobody notices.