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  4. Sorry, Cthulhu -- you'll always be my number 2

Sorry, Cthulhu -- you'll always be my number 2

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  • S saeveo@lemmy.world

    Yeah, there's a bit of a discussion about this further down the thread. Yahweh was originally some sort of god of war (and maybe storms? See the great flood), but as his worship became more prominent he assumed the attributes (and name, even) of the chief god of the pantheon, El.

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    humanspiral@lemmy.ca
    wrote last edited by
    #53

    Yaweh was the "subgod" for Israelites.

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    • E epicstove@lemmy.ca

      Correct me if I'm wrong, my knowledge of this history is iffy at best,

      Iirc, Early Judaism wasn't monotheistic like it, Christianity, and Islam are now.

      The people at the time had multiple gods, one of which was a minor god associated with storms. At some point this god was boosted into popularity and became the primary god of the old testament and eventually THE god of the 3 Religions.

      The line being written like this could be a holdover from this extremely early culture which was initially Polytheistic.

      OR it's just a funky translation and just ment to mean "Don't worship someone as a God like their any better than me.THE God."

      mirthfulalembic@lemmy.worldM This user is from outside of this forum
      mirthfulalembic@lemmy.worldM This user is from outside of this forum
      mirthfulalembic@lemmy.world
      wrote last edited by
      #54

      Yep.

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      • D diykeyboards@lemmy.world

        The Bible itself acknowledges other gods. When God made Man "in our image" he was speaking to the pantheon of gods.

        There are other examples, but I'm no scholar and my toast is almost ready.

        quarterswede@lemmy.worldQ This user is from outside of this forum
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        quarterswede@lemmy.world
        wrote last edited by
        #55

        No, he was speaking to the triune God, 3 in 1, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They are the same God.

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        • B blackstampede@sh.itjust.works

          What is "post-atheism"?

          queermunist@lemmy.mlQ This user is from outside of this forum
          queermunist@lemmy.mlQ This user is from outside of this forum
          queermunist@lemmy.ml
          wrote last edited by queermunist@lemmy.ml
          #56

          Recognizing that religion had an important place in the historical development of society (culture, government, labor, ownership, law, family, etc) and that being religious has a material basis that exists outside of our own ability to choose our beliefs.

          Atheism isn't a choice. Theism isn't a choice. They are just products of our material conditions.

          So, I don't try to convince anyone about atheism; I'm honestly somewhat jealous that religious people can still believe in anything.

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          • 3 3dmvr@lemm.ee

            lol, man didn not even mentions jewish ppl expicitly and you threw in antisemite lmaoo

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            saleh@feddit.org
            wrote last edited by
            #57

            The Torah is where the ten commandments first are written down. By Jews in Hebrew.

            And just not mentioning a group explicitly, does not mean you dont attack them.

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            • sundray@lemmus.orgS sundray@lemmus.org

              Bob the Angry Flower - The First Commandment

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              stupidcasey@lemmy.world
              wrote last edited by
              #58

              This is my first wife Yahweh, and my second wife Amen-Ra.

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              • C case@lemmynsfw.com

                Wait wait wait, did Judaism invent the basic concept of a checksum?

                That is... very interesting. I know numerology and the like are very popular parts of Jewish occultism.

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                uruanna@lemmy.world
                wrote last edited by
                #59

                It's not specific to Judaism, any oral tradition relies on the length of a sentence and rhyming and repetitions to make sure you got the right phrasing. That's how you come up with poetry and alexandrine and all that, everyone uses it.

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                • sundray@lemmus.orgS sundray@lemmus.org

                  Bob the Angry Flower - The First Commandment

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                  archmageazor@lemmy.world
                  wrote last edited by
                  #60

                  Back in the day you would pick and choose the gods you worshipped, like from the greek or roman pantheon. But if you chose to worship God you would have to put him literally before the other gods.

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                  • sundray@lemmus.orgS sundray@lemmus.org

                    Bob the Angry Flower - The First Commandment

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                    hakunawazo@lemmy.world
                    wrote last edited by
                    #61

                    If Cthulhu is your number 2 you immediately need to check for hemmorhoids.

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                    • sundray@lemmus.orgS sundray@lemmus.org

                      Bob the Angry Flower - The First Commandment

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                      philosaraptor7@lemm.ee
                      wrote last edited by
                      #62

                      This take is actually pretty close to the original reading. In the ancient near east it was a given that there were many deities. It's not that the worldview of the Bible is a strict monotheism but taht YHWH is the supreme God and the source of all.

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                      • H humanspiral@lemmy.ca

                        Yaweh was one of the sons of El in Caananite religion, which has the same Noah myth, and the religion/people is based on one of his son's decendants. El was accepted by Greeks as the same god as Zeus. Many other Caananite polytheistic gods had Greek equivalents.

                        When Moses wrote the tablets, he was basically doing a religious coup to claim the Hebrew/Israelite "subgod" was the primary god. Denouncing Idolatry, and "thou shalt not covet" was also a rebelion against the main/historical Phoenecian/Caananite religion to when Israelites war against Phoenecians "do not covet their idols, destroy them".

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                        dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works
                        wrote last edited by dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works
                        #63

                        "when Moses wrote the tablets"

                        The historical context here is really interesting, but this line is a head scratcher. A) god didn't write the tablets, Moses did it himself, B) tacit support for historicity of Moses. It's like not the religious viewpoint, but not the secular one either. Though I may be splitting hairs about a nonessential clause here.

                        absentbird@lemm.eeA H 2 Replies Last reply
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                        • sundray@lemmus.orgS sundray@lemmus.org

                          Bob the Angry Flower - The First Commandment

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                          prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                          wrote last edited by
                          #64

                          Yahweh was just one of many gods worshipped at that time. Which is why like 1/3 of the ten comandments are related to his own insecurities

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                          • S saleh@feddit.org

                            The Torah has been preserved in Hebrew, but changed in writing over time. The Quran has been preserved in Arabic and the original text is preserved, which is also why the language is preserved.

                            Your argument is factually wrong and calling all Jews, Muslims and Christians "fucking idiots" is racist and antisemitic.

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                            prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                            wrote last edited by
                            #65

                            You seem to be looking for something to be offended by. Sad.

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                            • quarterswede@lemmy.worldQ quarterswede@lemmy.world

                              No, he was speaking to the triune God, 3 in 1, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They are the same God.

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                              prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                              wrote last edited by
                              #66

                              No, he was speaking about Ahura Mazda

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                              • D dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works

                                "when Moses wrote the tablets"

                                The historical context here is really interesting, but this line is a head scratcher. A) god didn't write the tablets, Moses did it himself, B) tacit support for historicity of Moses. It's like not the religious viewpoint, but not the secular one either. Though I may be splitting hairs about a nonessential clause here.

                                absentbird@lemm.eeA This user is from outside of this forum
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                                absentbird@lemm.ee
                                wrote last edited by
                                #67

                                In the Bible story God made the first set, but they were destroyed by Moses in a meltdown. Moses had to carve the rewritten replacements which are the ones that get written down.

                                Regardless of whether someone thinks Moses is historical, the story itself is a coup of sorts.

                                Unrelated, but has anyone else noticed the ten commandments read like a bad AI prompt?

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                                • underpantsweevil@lemmy.worldU underpantsweevil@lemmy.world

                                  stupid for living 1,000-5,000 years ago, and having zero education, or for thinking that other people would buy that bullshit

                                  This is why I'm always a bit askance when presented with Atheism as some kind of enlightened philosophy.

                                  Just kicking in the door and shouting "Everyone who conceived of a being more powerful than themselves and attempted to extrapolate the natural world into an explainable series of events was FUCKING DUMB AS SHIT" is kinda simple-minded and divorced from any historical perspective on its face.

                                  Nevermind the chauvinism and the egotism of this bland dogmatic assertion. You're casually dismissing whole intermediate strains of philosophical and literary development, because people 5000 years ago weren't spoon-fed a level of education (mixed with its own heady brand of western War on Terror propaganda) you received a few years ago.

                                  That’s why religions brainwash small children using fear.

                                  Trying to explain to my five year old why transendentalism is going to ruin their life and perpetuate generations of human suffering without scaring them. Maybe if I lead in with "Catholics are going to rape you! Stay away from the church!" they'll get the core logic and reason without experiencing any kind of reflexive emotional response.

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                                  prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                                  wrote last edited by prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                                  #68

                                  Trying to explain to my five year old why transendentalism is going to ruin their life and perpetuate generations of human suffering without scaring them. Maybe if I lead in with “Catholics are going to rape you! Stay away from the church!” they’ll get the core logic and reason without experiencing any kind of reflexive emotional response.

                                  Are you fucking for real? Yeah, let's compare some theoretical woo to centuries of very real sexual abuse by the Catholic (and lets be real, every fucking other) church.

                                  How is "transendentalism" going to ruin your child's life and perpetuate generations of human suffering? What the fuck are you even talking about? Like the type of meditation that hippies thought was magic?

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                                  • sundray@lemmus.orgS sundray@lemmus.org

                                    Bob the Angry Flower - The First Commandment

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                                    hazzard@lemm.ee
                                    wrote last edited by hazzard@lemm.ee
                                    #69

                                    If you look into the Hebrew a little more, the word we translate here as "God" is "Elohim", which is better translated as something like "spiritual beings". This word is also used for angels, demons, etc.

                                    In fact, the phrase "Lord of Lords" is actually "Elohim of Elohim", making it a statement that he's the greatest spiritual being, which is a lot more distinct from "King of Kings" than we usually notice when he's referred to as "King of kings and Lord of lords".

                                    Elohim is even used once to refer to the "ghost" of Samuel, when Saul seeks out a medium to ask him for advice in 1 Samuel 28.

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                                    • absentbird@lemm.eeA absentbird@lemm.ee

                                      In the Bible story God made the first set, but they were destroyed by Moses in a meltdown. Moses had to carve the rewritten replacements which are the ones that get written down.

                                      Regardless of whether someone thinks Moses is historical, the story itself is a coup of sorts.

                                      Unrelated, but has anyone else noticed the ten commandments read like a bad AI prompt?

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                                      dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #70

                                      Ah yeah forgot that part. Been awhile since Sunday school.

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                                      • sundray@lemmus.orgS sundray@lemmus.org

                                        Bob the Angry Flower - The First Commandment

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                                        industrystandard@lemmy.world
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #71

                                        I think it says "thou shalt have no other gods besides me."

                                        M 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • H hakunawazo@lemmy.world

                                          If Cthulhu is your number 2 you immediately need to check for hemmorhoids.

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                                          _stranger_@lemmy.world
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #72

                                          Nothing cleans you put better than a tablespoon of incomprehensible, mind shattering horror in your morning coffee.

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