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Score one for atheism!

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  • H helixdab2@lemm.ee

    Honestly, this is why I don't discuss Mormon history and the massive, gaping chasms in their claims of Truth with my parents. My parents are old--old enough that the family is talking about who is going to call the coroner, who's going to deal with tying up finances, etc.--and knowing that they've wasted an entire lifetime and hundreds of thousands of dollars in tithing on a con isn't going to do anything useful at this point. Fifty years ago? Sure, they would have had plenty of time to come to terms with it. Now? Meh.

    W This user is from outside of this forum
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    whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world
    wrote last edited by
    #57

    When I worked in a nursing home, I was Christian.

    I mean, I wasn't. At all. But the dying little old ladies who sundowned so bad that they sometimes thought I was their grandchild? When they asked if I believed in Jesus, I'd bite my tongue and tell them yes. I hated having to lie to their faces, I hate even thinking about it all these years later, but some of them had nothing to look forward to except "going to heaven" by that point. Lying seemed the most ethical choice.

    J remembertheapollo_@lemmy.worldR 2 Replies Last reply
    27
    • tkk13909@sopuli.xyzT tkk13909@sopuli.xyz

      To be honest, I don't think a lot of people are ready. It's a hard thing to deconstruct your faith and if you're not careful it can take you to some really dark places. For a lot of people it's the way they find meaning and solace in a world of pain. Ultimately if you can find that comfort without tying it to religion that's better but not everyone can. That's my take on it post-deconversion

      T This user is from outside of this forum
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      thefinn@discuss.tchncs.de
      wrote last edited by
      #58

      Sure, but the sooner they start, the better off they'll be.

      1 Reply Last reply
      2
      • W whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world

        When I worked in a nursing home, I was Christian.

        I mean, I wasn't. At all. But the dying little old ladies who sundowned so bad that they sometimes thought I was their grandchild? When they asked if I believed in Jesus, I'd bite my tongue and tell them yes. I hated having to lie to their faces, I hate even thinking about it all these years later, but some of them had nothing to look forward to except "going to heaven" by that point. Lying seemed the most ethical choice.

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        jdf038@mander.xyz
        wrote last edited by
        #59

        I mean to make it easier I guess I would just tell myself I am convinced that Jesus existed. So I believe in him. But not "in Him" capital H.

        Or you could imagine yourself cheering Jesus on and hoping he will do well in sports ball for the Jerusalem league. I could see him as a solid basketball player with the magical powers and all.

        Nothing wrong with lying there obviously.

        1 Reply Last reply
        1
        • W whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world

          When I worked in a nursing home, I was Christian.

          I mean, I wasn't. At all. But the dying little old ladies who sundowned so bad that they sometimes thought I was their grandchild? When they asked if I believed in Jesus, I'd bite my tongue and tell them yes. I hated having to lie to their faces, I hate even thinking about it all these years later, but some of them had nothing to look forward to except "going to heaven" by that point. Lying seemed the most ethical choice.

          remembertheapollo_@lemmy.worldR This user is from outside of this forum
          remembertheapollo_@lemmy.worldR This user is from outside of this forum
          remembertheapollo_@lemmy.world
          wrote last edited by
          #60

          I would think you’d need to tell lots of lies to someone in that state to not make things difficult over and over for them. Jesus would just be another one on that pile.

          W 1 Reply Last reply
          12
          • remembertheapollo_@lemmy.worldR remembertheapollo_@lemmy.world

            I would think you’d need to tell lots of lies to someone in that state to not make things difficult over and over for them. Jesus would just be another one on that pile.

            W This user is from outside of this forum
            W This user is from outside of this forum
            whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world
            wrote last edited by whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world
            #61

            You got it. Sometimes the safest thing to do when somebody’s having hallucinations is to play along, and that means telling lots of lies. Sometimes people think their kids (who are well into their 60s) are still newborns, and they will have a panic attack because they don’t know where their “baby” is. I’ve reassured people that I “just set the baby down to nap” numerous times.

            I’ve seen people treat dolls like real babies, too, and one time a lady rolled up to me in her wheelchair, asking to see a doctor because her baby (a doll with food smeared over its mouth) wasn’t eating. I even went so far as to get those “magic” doll bottle things that appear to “empty” when you tip them.

            Point is, you’re right. But I don’t feel as conflicted about all the other lies I told, I guess the religion thing is just too … I dunno, “icky” for me? I’m an out atheist with pretty much everyone else. I don’t like having to go back into a closet.

            remembertheapollo_@lemmy.worldR 1 Reply Last reply
            10
            • W whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world

              You got it. Sometimes the safest thing to do when somebody’s having hallucinations is to play along, and that means telling lots of lies. Sometimes people think their kids (who are well into their 60s) are still newborns, and they will have a panic attack because they don’t know where their “baby” is. I’ve reassured people that I “just set the baby down to nap” numerous times.

              I’ve seen people treat dolls like real babies, too, and one time a lady rolled up to me in her wheelchair, asking to see a doctor because her baby (a doll with food smeared over its mouth) wasn’t eating. I even went so far as to get those “magic” doll bottle things that appear to “empty” when you tip them.

              Point is, you’re right. But I don’t feel as conflicted about all the other lies I told, I guess the religion thing is just too … I dunno, “icky” for me? I’m an out atheist with pretty much everyone else. I don’t like having to go back into a closet.

              remembertheapollo_@lemmy.worldR This user is from outside of this forum
              remembertheapollo_@lemmy.worldR This user is from outside of this forum
              remembertheapollo_@lemmy.world
              wrote last edited by
              #62

              One set of lies is about their past or present. The Jesus one is about their future. It’s a lot easier to lie to someone about the former two than to tell them there’s no future, they’ll never be whole or happy again. We all need a reason to look forward, a reason to keep the chin up and carry on. Most anyone can empathetically understand how crushing it would be if they were told that they were going to die soon, so telling an Alzheimer's victim that there’s nothing to look forward to rings a similar bell in our heads.

              1 Reply Last reply
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              • J jaydee@lemmy.sdf.org

                I take this comic to be more poking fun at the portion of atheists who make their entire personality around disproving God's existence - people who try to spread atheism the same way christians spread their own gospel. It's largely not applicable to other atheists.

                A This user is from outside of this forum
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                adalast@lemmy.world
                wrote last edited by
                #63

                Yeah, those aren't athiests, they are assholes. Anyone who prosthelytizes is an asshole. Period.

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • tkk13909@sopuli.xyzT tkk13909@sopuli.xyz

                  To be honest, I don't think a lot of people are ready. It's a hard thing to deconstruct your faith and if you're not careful it can take you to some really dark places. For a lot of people it's the way they find meaning and solace in a world of pain. Ultimately if you can find that comfort without tying it to religion that's better but not everyone can. That's my take on it post-deconversion

                  D This user is from outside of this forum
                  D This user is from outside of this forum
                  drmoose@lemmy.world
                  wrote last edited by
                  #64

                  Not to offend you but tbh I hate this thought process and imo this smells of superiority complex "peasants are just not ready for reality yet". The peasants are actually really smart and humans are very good at adapting and changing their world model given appropriate motivation.

                  The world is absolutely ready to rid itself of religion.

                  1 Reply Last reply
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                  • D donkter@lemmy.world

                    So many people in this thread completely missing the satire. The author is clearly also an atheist poking fun at the highschool reddit atheist stereotype. Taking this way too seriously.

                    J This user is from outside of this forum
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                    jsomae@lemmy.ml
                    wrote last edited by
                    #65

                    I didn't catch the self-deprecation. What makes it clear?

                    D 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.comW wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                      This post did not contain any content.
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                      jsomae@lemmy.ml
                      wrote last edited by
                      #66

                      Religion may be a lie but it's a comforting lie and that helps a lot of people get through their daily life.

                      ynthrepic@lemmy.worldY 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • J jsomae@lemmy.ml

                        I didn't catch the self-deprecation. What makes it clear?

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                        donkter@lemmy.world
                        wrote last edited by donkter@lemmy.world
                        #67

                        To me, what this comic is saying is that even if you're able to debate someone out of believing in God it's cruel to do it to someone like your mom who has God as the central pillar of their emotional well-being.

                        It presupposes that you're able to "prove" that God doesn't exist and to me it doesn't necessarily paint the idea of being an atheist in a negative light, just the neckbeard atheist attitude that you should try to emotionally destroy people who do believe in God.

                        It's a three panel comic so yeah, it's a bit ambiguous, I just think that people are missing that the punchline is really only funny from an atheist perspective. From a Christian perspective the comic is awkward. The last panel wouldn't be a punchline and wouldn't make sense at all, how would these obviously loser neckbeards be able to prove God doesn't exist?

                        J 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • J jsomae@lemmy.ml

                          Religion may be a lie but it's a comforting lie and that helps a lot of people get through their daily life.

                          ynthrepic@lemmy.worldY This user is from outside of this forum
                          ynthrepic@lemmy.worldY This user is from outside of this forum
                          ynthrepic@lemmy.world
                          wrote last edited by
                          #68

                          Thing is it shouldn't be comforting to anyone if they really take the details seriously. You could do as much damage really educating someone about Deuteronomy and other fun parts of the Bible and ultimately leave them in a worse state than finding a way to make them an atheist.

                          We forget an atheist is just a non-theist. Someone who doesn't believe in any specific canonical god. I'm an atheist with a genuine faith the universe has more in store for "me" (whatever that is; I don't believe it's necessarily or eternally "ynthrepic") than a mere human lifetime given what we know about the universe as a whole and how mysterious and seemingly fundamental consciousness is to it all. That gives me some relief and comfort from the existential dread. More than I could possibly get from Yahweh and his totally uncompelling biblical heaven and hell dynamic.

                          godric@lemmy.worldG J 2 Replies Last reply
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                          • wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.comW wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                            This post did not contain any content.
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                            godric@lemmy.world
                            wrote last edited by
                            #69

                            Me at 13 discovering I wont see my loved ones ever again and there's nobody's hand on my shoulder holding me up:

                            fizz@lemmy.nzF 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • ynthrepic@lemmy.worldY ynthrepic@lemmy.world

                              Thing is it shouldn't be comforting to anyone if they really take the details seriously. You could do as much damage really educating someone about Deuteronomy and other fun parts of the Bible and ultimately leave them in a worse state than finding a way to make them an atheist.

                              We forget an atheist is just a non-theist. Someone who doesn't believe in any specific canonical god. I'm an atheist with a genuine faith the universe has more in store for "me" (whatever that is; I don't believe it's necessarily or eternally "ynthrepic") than a mere human lifetime given what we know about the universe as a whole and how mysterious and seemingly fundamental consciousness is to it all. That gives me some relief and comfort from the existential dread. More than I could possibly get from Yahweh and his totally uncompelling biblical heaven and hell dynamic.

                              godric@lemmy.worldG This user is from outside of this forum
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                              godric@lemmy.world
                              wrote last edited by
                              #70

                              You're forgetting that some people have coping mechanisms for life around systems containing a kind god that's there looking after them, and will reunite them with people they desperately hope to see again when they die.

                              Your coping mechanism is hoping the universe is magical and mysterious and has something more for you when you die. You're not an atheist, just a non-denominational theist with a different hope for continuing on after you're dead. I hope it brings you comfort, but don't shit on people who have a different post death comfort they hope for.

                              ynthrepic@lemmy.worldY 1 Reply Last reply
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                              • C carbonatedpastasauce@lemmy.world

                                Nobody said reality was all smiles and rainbows. However, it’s entirely possible to find happiness without believing in fairy tales so you can sleep at night.

                                tkk13909@sopuli.xyzT This user is from outside of this forum
                                tkk13909@sopuli.xyzT This user is from outside of this forum
                                tkk13909@sopuli.xyz
                                wrote last edited by
                                #71

                                It's possible but unfortunately when people have spent their entire lives with religion being their (seemingly) only source of happiness, it can be really hard for them to find a different source.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • ynthrepic@lemmy.worldY ynthrepic@lemmy.world

                                  Thing is it shouldn't be comforting to anyone if they really take the details seriously. You could do as much damage really educating someone about Deuteronomy and other fun parts of the Bible and ultimately leave them in a worse state than finding a way to make them an atheist.

                                  We forget an atheist is just a non-theist. Someone who doesn't believe in any specific canonical god. I'm an atheist with a genuine faith the universe has more in store for "me" (whatever that is; I don't believe it's necessarily or eternally "ynthrepic") than a mere human lifetime given what we know about the universe as a whole and how mysterious and seemingly fundamental consciousness is to it all. That gives me some relief and comfort from the existential dread. More than I could possibly get from Yahweh and his totally uncompelling biblical heaven and hell dynamic.

                                  J This user is from outside of this forum
                                  J This user is from outside of this forum
                                  jsomae@lemmy.ml
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #72

                                  Most people I know who are religious don't take the bible very literally; most haven't even read it. The comforting lie is stuff about the after-life, heaven, and a caring universe.

                                  ynthrepic@lemmy.worldY 1 Reply Last reply
                                  4
                                  • D donkter@lemmy.world

                                    To me, what this comic is saying is that even if you're able to debate someone out of believing in God it's cruel to do it to someone like your mom who has God as the central pillar of their emotional well-being.

                                    It presupposes that you're able to "prove" that God doesn't exist and to me it doesn't necessarily paint the idea of being an atheist in a negative light, just the neckbeard atheist attitude that you should try to emotionally destroy people who do believe in God.

                                    It's a three panel comic so yeah, it's a bit ambiguous, I just think that people are missing that the punchline is really only funny from an atheist perspective. From a Christian perspective the comic is awkward. The last panel wouldn't be a punchline and wouldn't make sense at all, how would these obviously loser neckbeards be able to prove God doesn't exist?

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                                    jsomae@lemmy.ml
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #73

                                    Hmm, that is a pretty insightful point. On the other hand, I think most people I know who are religious are the sort who can appreciate self-deprecating humour themselves -- they might think it's funny for taking an absurd premise to its logical conclusion.

                                    What suggests to me that this author is trying to paint atheism in a negative light is quite straightforwardly "score one for atheism." It doesn't really have a hint of irony to me. I think the author clearly thinks atheism just isn't cool anymore.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • J jaydee@lemmy.sdf.org

                                      Don't be anti-intellectual about this silly comic. People can apply intellectual analysis to stupid things if they want to, and they damn-well may find deeper meaning sometimes.

                                      Let people have their hobbies.

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                                      qaz@lemmy.world
                                      wrote last edited by qaz@lemmy.world
                                      #74

                                      So you're saying you should just let people believe and leave them be? /s

                                      samus12345@lemm.eeS 1 Reply Last reply
                                      1
                                      • godric@lemmy.worldG godric@lemmy.world

                                        Me at 13 discovering I wont see my loved ones ever again and there's nobody's hand on my shoulder holding me up:

                                        fizz@lemmy.nzF This user is from outside of this forum
                                        fizz@lemmy.nzF This user is from outside of this forum
                                        fizz@lemmy.nz
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #75

                                        Me when I try and pet a cat but they run away.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        9
                                        • wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.comW wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                                          zeffsyde@lemmy.world
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #76

                                          With how sad and empty my geriatric mother's life is, the last thing I'm going to do is take away her imaginary friend.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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