It might be too late for the Threadiverse...
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It's crazy that I've been on Lemmy for like 2 years and I think I've encountered direct toxic behavior only a handful of times. Obviously I'm aware of the trolls and problematic instances, but those can easily be blocked.
Am I the asshole?
Damn, you must have blocked a lot of stuff.
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If you put an average person in here with a minimal idea of what 4chan is, what would they say this place is like?
When they inevitably get scared off because some .ml users were going off ranting about how such such article about NK that got posted was actually western propaganda and that "NK is all good actually", what do you think they'll tell others?
This isnt about me or you, we have thick skin and can deal with the BS toxicity and have even become desensitized to it so it doesn't seem that bad
But we are not the average person and if we want the Threadiverse to succeed and maybe even threaten Reddit a bit, we need the normal users
I'll take someone claiming that a post about North Korea is western propaganda over someone that is trying to explain, how supporting genocide is somehow the right political choice.
I feel like the people that feel an over presence of "tankies" on instances that aren't ml, hexbear or grad, are confused that the fediverse is notably more left-leaning than what they are used from reddit, Twitter or other corporate social media. Being exposed to maybe not being that "lefty" after all and more of the right side of the political spectrum here, seems to rub them the wrong way.
Here's a screenshot of the !worldnews@lemmy.ml As you can see, on the "tankie instance" News positive for Ukraine is getting the upvotes and stuff positive of Russia is getting the downvotes
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I
don'thave concrete sources and answers but I know wafrn.net has banned JD vance in their server.Oh… I found the thread: https://kolektiva.social/@sanana/114710330584126102
I think bluesky is split in couple of microservices that you can host individually. A moderation service called Labbeler can directly talk to federation service called Firehose That can block identity as it's attached to a person regardless of hosting instance (PDS).
So you don't have to host whole AT proto stack but only a part of it. Just the data, just the pipeline or just the moderation. On fedi you NEED to host whole instance from data to moderation in one go.
Edit: medium quality blogpost about this https://cyrneko.eu/blog//there-is-no-bsky-social-instance_t5o5fayk1i.html
Thank you!
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Let’s say tomorrow the feddit.uk team decides to self host a PDS provider.
Is it possible for the feddit.uk team to ban someone, or can that only be done by Bluesky? Would that ban be federated to other PDS providers?
We could stop hosting the account and purge it from our DB, though IRRC the user can migrate to a new host and have Bluesky populate that with their old data, because everything is public on AT and is kept in Bluesky's relay (I think this is a bad thing, just fyi). The user would still be banned from the various labelers as these operate (I presume) on the accounts DID, which should stay the same across migration. PDS providers don't talk to each other, PDS don't do much so don't really need to. They just store data.
Edit: I feel like Bluesky has the same issue than the Fediverse has with federated bans and alts, but because everybody uses Bluesky’s centralized components, nobody notices.
Bluesky does genuinely have some better moderation tools, labelers are something I think even us on Lemmy/PieFed/whatever might want to look at. But these aren't magic and there's plenty of toxicity on Bluesky, Bluesky just gives you some more tools to help manage it. When Mastodon gets the ability to disable replies I think will help a lot.
Thank you
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Thats because in general the "leftists" that occupy spaces like ml arent really leftists at all, they are anti-western idologues. You will very rarely see them posting about things left wing people tend to care about like workers rights, cost of living, housing or things like that. They are far more interested in geopolitics, especially on issues where they can make "west bad" posts.
While I understand your argument that their ideology is defined in large parts by other factors than political alignment, I do see them talk about those kinds of things, specially through the lens of demanding communism as a resolution to those problems, or calling for the abolishment of the class that facilitates those problems
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It's crazy that I've been on Lemmy for like 2 years and I think I've encountered direct toxic behavior only a handful of times. Obviously I'm aware of the trolls and problematic instances, but those can easily be blocked.
Am I the asshole?
dunno, this seems a pretty chill instance and your experience mostly matches mine. There are a few knobheads I see around though (I started adding user notes and it's amazing how any agro chat is always one of the same few accounts)
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yep yep! ive been called a nazi because I psoted about the Green Party lol
The Green Party is farther left than the Democrats. But people throw around nazi and fascist as some sort of insult, not even knowing the meaning of those words. -
It was a response to openly mocking people’s choice to raise their children Christian.
It really wasn't: https://p.feddit.uk/post/feddit.uk/31856602?thread=0.18336647#18336647
The premise of the meme is that's it's hypocritical to think that children can't understand the ideas of being gay or trans, but somehow can decide to be Christian. Your response is mostly non sequitur and implies it's actively dangerous to teach kids about gay people.
My comment was deleted. I misunderstood the premise. I was saying that teaching kids about Christianity at a young age isn't bad, but teaching kids about sexual intercourse and in depth details about transgender issues is. There's nothing wrong with teaching kids that "some people have two mums" at a young age, or when they're a teen teaching them about sex ed and that people who have gender dysphoria exist and should be respected. (In fact, teenagers should be taught about safe sex. It lowers the amount of abortions, as well as children that teens aren't prepared for.)
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Not yet. We are waiting for an upstream change that would allow us to import existing bcrypt hashed passwords from the Lemmy database.
In my experience Piefed is quite fast, maybe there was some temporary issue with the piefed.world instance?
Aye quite possibly, there's a pinned post about it on their front page so its possible its taking a bit of a load battering. I'll keep my eye out for your instance then.
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While I understand your argument that their ideology is defined in large parts by other factors than political alignment, I do see them talk about those kinds of things, specially through the lens of demanding communism as a resolution to those problems, or calling for the abolishment of the class that facilitates those problems
I saw some research about this recently let me see if I can find it, it was based on reddit communities but I think it applies to lemmy as much if not more.
ah here it is
ABSTRACT
Social media’s role in the spread and evolution of extremism is a focus of intense study. Online extremists have been involved in the spread of online hate, mis- and disinformation, and real-world violence. However, most existing work has focuses on right-wing extremism. In this paper, we perform a first of its kind large-scale measurement study exploring left-wing extremism. We focus on “tankies,” a left-wing community that first arose in the 1950s in support of hardline actions of the USSR and has evolved to support what they call “Actually Existing Socialist” countries, e.g., CCP-run China, the USSR, and North Korea. We collect and analyze 1.3M posts from 53K authors from tankie subreddits, and explore the position of tankies within the broader far-left community on Reddit. Among other things, we find that tankies are clearly on the periphery of the larger far-left community. When examining the contents of posts, we find misalignments and conceptual homomorphisms that confirm the description of tankies in the theoretical work. We also discover that tankies focus more on state-level political events rather than social issues. Our findings provide empirical evidence of the distinct positioning and discourse of left-wing extremist groups on social media.
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It was a rather sombering thread, that echoed quite a bit of what I've been saying about .ml, the Triad, general toxicity of their Tankie "ideology" for months now.
I know @ptz@dubvee.org was speaking of general toxicity, but the Triad is a huge chunk of it, the culture they create...festers it. They comprise the bulk of the hostility, I've personally seen it over and over and over again. All the "Just go back to Reddit" or "just another lib Redditor refugee" comments for someone that dared to have nuance.
Hell, I saw hex users fucking cheering .ee's shutdown because it was some sort of psyop/CIA/fed/lib/"They didn't perfectly agree with me" instance. They call feddit.org a "Nazi Zionist" instance for the crime....of not wanting to be arrested and complying with German law...
I haven't looked to see if they've started any "celebratory" posts about Dubvee yet and I also don't really want to, if they're there, I already know what they're going to say in it -_-
Unfortunately, I fear the problem was far worse than I thought.
Ptz speculated that the toxicity has "metastasized". And you know what? He might be right, it seemed to be a lot better off 2 years ago, now....now I feel we might be losing the battle against the toxicity and I don't think PieFed will be enough. Complacency has set in
My hope was that with enough instances defederating from .ml and the rest of the Triad, it would be a tad easier to take down toxic Tankies, trolls and their alts. But, few wanted to burn the bridge with the toxic main devs' instance and now it might be too late. (Cheers to @Illecors@lemmy.cafe and the lemmy.cafe instance, one of the few of note to actually defederate from the entire triad!)
Like ptz said and I fully agree with, this place started with promise 2 years ago, but it appears to be ultimately morphing into 4chan (or like I've been saying, Voat 2.0) after all
Oh well, I've got some thick ass skin so I'll probably be here till the end, till the last sane instance shuts down.
I'll see you there @dessalines@lemmy.ml
/Sadmemerant
Heck, maybe I'll do a hail Mary and start an instance on a custom fork of lemmy with "normie proof" onboarding while dumping a few hundred in ADs (Maybe even on Reddit itself, HA!). I'll flood this place with "normies" LMAO
Libs whining, time to get my popcorn
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It was a rather sombering thread, that echoed quite a bit of what I've been saying about .ml, the Triad, general toxicity of their Tankie "ideology" for months now.
I know @ptz@dubvee.org was speaking of general toxicity, but the Triad is a huge chunk of it, the culture they create...festers it. They comprise the bulk of the hostility, I've personally seen it over and over and over again. All the "Just go back to Reddit" or "just another lib Redditor refugee" comments for someone that dared to have nuance.
Hell, I saw hex users fucking cheering .ee's shutdown because it was some sort of psyop/CIA/fed/lib/"They didn't perfectly agree with me" instance. They call feddit.org a "Nazi Zionist" instance for the crime....of not wanting to be arrested and complying with German law...
I haven't looked to see if they've started any "celebratory" posts about Dubvee yet and I also don't really want to, if they're there, I already know what they're going to say in it -_-
Unfortunately, I fear the problem was far worse than I thought.
Ptz speculated that the toxicity has "metastasized". And you know what? He might be right, it seemed to be a lot better off 2 years ago, now....now I feel we might be losing the battle against the toxicity and I don't think PieFed will be enough. Complacency has set in
My hope was that with enough instances defederating from .ml and the rest of the Triad, it would be a tad easier to take down toxic Tankies, trolls and their alts. But, few wanted to burn the bridge with the toxic main devs' instance and now it might be too late. (Cheers to @Illecors@lemmy.cafe and the lemmy.cafe instance, one of the few of note to actually defederate from the entire triad!)
Like ptz said and I fully agree with, this place started with promise 2 years ago, but it appears to be ultimately morphing into 4chan (or like I've been saying, Voat 2.0) after all
Oh well, I've got some thick ass skin so I'll probably be here till the end, till the last sane instance shuts down.
I'll see you there @dessalines@lemmy.ml
/Sadmemerant
Heck, maybe I'll do a hail Mary and start an instance on a custom fork of lemmy with "normie proof" onboarding while dumping a few hundred in ADs (Maybe even on Reddit itself, HA!). I'll flood this place with "normies" LMAO
Libs whining, time to get my popcorn
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Damn, you must have blocked a lot of stuff.
You can be the judge of that
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It's crazy that I've been on Lemmy for like 2 years and I think I've encountered direct toxic behavior only a handful of times. Obviously I'm aware of the trolls and problematic instances, but those can easily be blocked.
Am I the asshole?
It was an old truism on Reddit that you could avoid 99% of the worst behaviour by just never going on /r/all or visiting the default subs. If you just visit communities you actually like, you have a much nicer experience.
It's the same here. I subscribe to a bunch of communities I enjoy, and I browse Local on my home instance feddit.uk. I basically never go on the big All feed. And my experience is pretty tranquil; rarely do I see any trouble, and even more rarely trouble that the mods/admins can't keep on top of.
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I saw some research about this recently let me see if I can find it, it was based on reddit communities but I think it applies to lemmy as much if not more.
ah here it is
ABSTRACT
Social media’s role in the spread and evolution of extremism is a focus of intense study. Online extremists have been involved in the spread of online hate, mis- and disinformation, and real-world violence. However, most existing work has focuses on right-wing extremism. In this paper, we perform a first of its kind large-scale measurement study exploring left-wing extremism. We focus on “tankies,” a left-wing community that first arose in the 1950s in support of hardline actions of the USSR and has evolved to support what they call “Actually Existing Socialist” countries, e.g., CCP-run China, the USSR, and North Korea. We collect and analyze 1.3M posts from 53K authors from tankie subreddits, and explore the position of tankies within the broader far-left community on Reddit. Among other things, we find that tankies are clearly on the periphery of the larger far-left community. When examining the contents of posts, we find misalignments and conceptual homomorphisms that confirm the description of tankies in the theoretical work. We also discover that tankies focus more on state-level political events rather than social issues. Our findings provide empirical evidence of the distinct positioning and discourse of left-wing extremist groups on social media.
can u break down what thats saying?
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But is that from a "normie" perspective or from a regular Threadiverse user perspective? Because from a regular Threadiverse user perspective many have become desensitized I feel, and that's also another aspect of the problem.
Because ptz has been operating on tamping down toxicity with the goal of it being attractive to the average user.
The Threadiverse will not actually achieve much without the "normies"
Can you describe what you mean by a normie? I'm genuinely curious.
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You can be the judge of that
Why did you block my true love
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Why did you block my true love
So she'd have more time for you.
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It was a rather sombering thread, that echoed quite a bit of what I've been saying about .ml, the Triad, general toxicity of their Tankie "ideology" for months now.
I know @ptz@dubvee.org was speaking of general toxicity, but the Triad is a huge chunk of it, the culture they create...festers it. They comprise the bulk of the hostility, I've personally seen it over and over and over again. All the "Just go back to Reddit" or "just another lib Redditor refugee" comments for someone that dared to have nuance.
Hell, I saw hex users fucking cheering .ee's shutdown because it was some sort of psyop/CIA/fed/lib/"They didn't perfectly agree with me" instance. They call feddit.org a "Nazi Zionist" instance for the crime....of not wanting to be arrested and complying with German law...
I haven't looked to see if they've started any "celebratory" posts about Dubvee yet and I also don't really want to, if they're there, I already know what they're going to say in it -_-
Unfortunately, I fear the problem was far worse than I thought.
Ptz speculated that the toxicity has "metastasized". And you know what? He might be right, it seemed to be a lot better off 2 years ago, now....now I feel we might be losing the battle against the toxicity and I don't think PieFed will be enough. Complacency has set in
My hope was that with enough instances defederating from .ml and the rest of the Triad, it would be a tad easier to take down toxic Tankies, trolls and their alts. But, few wanted to burn the bridge with the toxic main devs' instance and now it might be too late. (Cheers to @Illecors@lemmy.cafe and the lemmy.cafe instance, one of the few of note to actually defederate from the entire triad!)
Like ptz said and I fully agree with, this place started with promise 2 years ago, but it appears to be ultimately morphing into 4chan (or like I've been saying, Voat 2.0) after all
Oh well, I've got some thick ass skin so I'll probably be here till the end, till the last sane instance shuts down.
I'll see you there @dessalines@lemmy.ml
/Sadmemerant
Heck, maybe I'll do a hail Mary and start an instance on a custom fork of lemmy with "normie proof" onboarding while dumping a few hundred in ADs (Maybe even on Reddit itself, HA!). I'll flood this place with "normies" LMAO
There's a lot of bumpiness involved with setting up the fediverse and not every instance, frontend, project and app will work out in the end. The fediverse is relatively young compared to Facebook. Though as we venture further into our journey the sharper we become.
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can u break down what thats saying?
Essentially that there a bunch of far-left users (in reddit in this case but in other places too) colloquially refered to as "tankies". They are noticably different from other groups and the centre- and far-left in what they talk about, who they associate with, and the agressiveness of their discussions.
They are far more focused on parroting the offical state position of the CCP, DPRK and Russia, far less interested in social issues and more interested in geo-politics, and far more likely to use violent language "kill the libs" etc.
The authors show this by looking at a huge chunk of reddit posts seeing who posts what, where and how communities link to each other.
This figure
is hard to understand at first but instructive once you do. For each of the word pairing the word on the left is what the tankie subreddits use and the one on the right is what the non tankie far-left subreddit in that column uses, the number is how strong this difference is. For example the blue one in the third column (Zelensky - Trump) means that the tankies use "Zelensky" in the same way the r/DemocraticSocialism uses "Trump", presumably talking shit about them. It gives a sense of just how different the discourse is between them and even the groups who you would expect to be ideologically most similar to them, and how they hugely prefer to use terms and framing that the Russian and Chinese government do.
