Now I would really like to make a deepdive and see how did blackskyweb.xyz manage to become huge moderating force in AT proto(bluesky).

I was surprised that over those 2 years bluesky is kinda selfhostable. Maybe decision to make instances more important than people has doomed ActivityPub to become a toxic cesspool. I still remember how technology connections has resigned from mastodon over toxicity.

I saw this toxicity at the beginning and changed how I interact with the network. No controversial topics whatsoever, no OC memes as they will be bashed. Now I just repost stuff from tumblr and comment here and there.

I'll repeat a few things I've been saying about this. To keep it short: less verbose:

What people call "toxicity" online relies heavily on irrationality, from the aggressor and/or the target. And politics raises the stakes of everything, so irrationality + political engagement is specially prone to generate catty behaviour, name calling, uncalled combativeness, and all that crap.

Now look at social media. You'll see irrationals infesting every platform. Reddit in special encourages it, and most lemmings are from Reddit.

Why this matters: because I believe people here are focusing too much on .ml and Hexbear, without noticing the problem would still persist without them.

yep yep! ive been called a nazi because I psoted about the Green Party lol

Maybe a naive question, but how does Bluesky manage user bans from different instances? Is there a way to federate bans over the whole network?

Bluesky's network topology doesn't work like APub's, so this question doesn't really make sense. Like, what is the 'instance' here? The relay? The users' PDS? The AppView? I suppose the PDS provider could ban a user and this would then be indexed by the relay(s). We can argue all day about how decentralised the AT Protocol is, but Bluesky the platform makes no effort to be decentralised*.

* By decentralised I mean a platform controlled by multiple independent actors, a multi-stakeholder platform. Even if you use a non-Bluesky the company relay + app view, it's still centralised around whoever is hosting those.

I knew by asking the question we would get into the Bluesky components questions

Let's say tomorrow the feddit.uk team decides to self host a PDS provider.

Is it possible for the feddit.uk team to ban someone, or can that only be done by Bluesky? Would that ban be federated to other PDS providers?

Edit: I feel like Bluesky has the same issue than the Fediverse has with federated bans and alts, but because everybody uses Bluesky's centralized components, nobody notices.

I know exactly nothing about the green party but like Jesus fuck you'd think leftists would have learned that's an important word to stop diluting given many of us are living under a system slipping into actual full blown fascism and it's an increasingly big problem globally

Its so painfully harmful to leftist causes to go around accusing your fellow leftists of being a nazi for not being your exact flavor of left. We all need to cut that shit out and grow some emotional and interpersonal maturity.

We (slrpnk.net) are only planning to move to Piefed due to technical annoyances with Lemmy the software. As I wrote above, the level of toxicity we see on our instance is really not so bad.

I knew by asking the question we would get into the Bluesky components questions

Let's say tomorrow the feddit.uk team decides to self host a PDS provider.

Is it possible for the feddit.uk team to ban someone, or can that only be done by Bluesky? Would that ban be federated to other PDS providers?

Edit: I feel like Bluesky has the same issue than the Fediverse has with federated bans and alts, but because everybody uses Bluesky's centralized components, nobody notices.

You can. Just block the instance.

(not the comments and posts that .ml users make on other instances, I want to be able to downvote and report them if other non-tankie users can see them).

That's how instance blocking works at the user level right now. It only blocks communities on the instance, not users.

Is there a post on this anywhere? I'd consider moving to solarpunk to get off lemmy and away from the tankies, but when I tried the .world piefed instance it was incredibly slow.

It was a rather sombering thread, that echoed quite a bit of what I've been saying about .ml, the Triad, general toxicity of their Tankie "ideology" for months now.

I know @ptz@dubvee.org was speaking of general toxicity, but the Triad is a huge chunk of it, the culture they create...festers it. They comprise the bulk of the hostility, I've personally seen it over and over and over again. All the "Just go back to Reddit" or "just another lib Redditor refugee" comments for someone that dared to have nuance.

Hell, I saw hex users fucking cheering .ee's shutdown because it was some sort of psyop/CIA/fed/lib/"They didn't perfectly agree with me" instance. They call feddit.org a "Nazi Zionist" instance for the crime....of not wanting to be arrested and complying with German law...

I haven't looked to see if they've started any "celebratory" posts about Dubvee yet and I also don't really want to, if they're there, I already know what they're going to say in it -_-

Unfortunately, I fear the problem was far worse than I thought.

Ptz speculated that the toxicity has "metastasized". And you know what? He might be right, it seemed to be a lot better off 2 years ago, now....now I feel we might be losing the battle against the toxicity and I don't think PieFed will be enough. Complacency has set in

My hope was that with enough instances defederating from .ml and the rest of the Triad, it would be a tad easier to take down toxic Tankies, trolls and their alts. But, few wanted to burn the bridge with the toxic main devs' instance and now it might be too late. (Cheers to @Illecors@lemmy.cafe and the lemmy.cafe instance, one of the few of note to actually defederate from the entire triad!)

Like ptz said and I fully agree with, this place started with promise 2 years ago, but it appears to be ultimately morphing into 4chan (or like I've been saying, Voat 2.0) after all

Oh well, I've got some thick ass skin so I'll probably be here till the end, till the last sane instance shuts down.

I'll see you there @dessalines@lemmy.ml

/Sadmemerant

Heck, maybe I'll do a hail Mary and start an instance on a custom fork of lemmy with "normie proof" onboarding while dumping a few hundred in ADs (Maybe even on Reddit itself, HA!). I'll flood this place with "normies" LMAO

I avoid news and politics, that probably helps a lot on that regard

Honestly, same. As an ML user (this is my UK alt), I never really saw any of toxicity described by so many others, but I guess I just learned early on to put my filters up and have been living in my own bubble within ML.

If a place gets toxic, I tend to just leave instead of doubling down, and that I think is a pattern that might be alien to some because how reddit used to function: you couldn't just leave reddit politics-wise because the frontpage literally hammered you with it, so you'd have to stand your ground and fight until users or mods waded in. But here? You can leave lemmy politics-wise because the frontpage is either your subs or local posts filtered through your block lists.

I'm very happy in my bubble, and it does genuinely confuse me when someone says "oh, you're from ML, are you?" and I think "yeah... and it's mostly quiet, just the way I like it"

It wasn't a transphobic comment. It was a response to openly mocking people's choice to raise their children Christian.

I knew by asking the question we would get into the Bluesky components questions

Let's say tomorrow the feddit.uk team decides to self host a PDS provider.

Is it possible for the feddit.uk team to ban someone, or can that only be done by Bluesky? Would that ban be federated to other PDS providers?

Edit: I feel like Bluesky has the same issue than the Fediverse has with federated bans and alts, but because everybody uses Bluesky's centralized components, nobody notices.

It's crazy that I've been on Lemmy for like 2 years and I think I've encountered direct toxic behavior only a handful of times. Obviously I'm aware of the trolls and problematic instances, but those can easily be blocked.

Am I the asshole?

If you put an average person in here with a minimal idea of what 4chan is, what would they say this place is like?

When they inevitably get scared off because some .ml users were going off ranting about how such such article about NK that got posted was actually western propaganda and that "NK is all good actually", what do you think they'll tell others?

This isnt about me or you, we have thick skin and can deal with the BS toxicity and have even become desensitized to it so it doesn't seem that bad

But we are not the average person and if we want the Threadiverse to succeed and maybe even threaten Reddit a bit, we need the normal users

I don't have concrete sources and answers but I know wafrn.net has banned JD vance in their server.

Oh… I found the thread: https://kolektiva.social/@sanana/114710330584126102

I think bluesky is split in couple of microservices that you can host individually. A moderation service called Labbeler can directly talk to federation service called Firehose That can block identity as it's attached to a person regardless of hosting instance (PDS).

So you don't have to host whole AT proto stack but only a part of it. Just the data, just the pipeline or just the moderation. On fedi you NEED to host whole instance from data to moderation in one go.

Edit: medium quality blogpost about this https://cyrneko.eu/blog//there-is-no-bsky-social-instance_t5o5fayk1i.html