@kleisli @evan Legally in US and many jurisdictions, you can always link. Traditionally in Japan that was NOT ok at least socially. You needed to ask permission to link to people's personal pages. I'm not sure what the standard is now.

But if you're saving it a way that's not for your own private personal use but as part of offering access to others, you need to be following the protocol for deletion and privacy. And you can't be making derivative works that aren't fair use.

@gumnos @evan

So in terms of respecting people's boundaries for their posts, the issues are more like email then they are like web publishing.

When I send this post to bsd.cafe, can that server forward it? Should it? If I don't want that to happen how can I prevent it?

But there's also a bit like blogging: if I want my posts to be single-server so you have to visit my site to see them, is it even possible? But then how would multi-party conversations like this one work?

@dalias > Traditionally in Japan that was NOT ok at least socially.

Were Japan just weirdly early on search engines and never had web directories or was something else going on?

@dalias @kleisli @evan Also depending on what it's for, it can be illegal in EU. Like if it reveals personal data, with personal != private, or it's defaming in the style of a blocklist.
For example shared twitter blocklists targetting personal accounts have caused trouble.

Sometimes. I know of a couple cases where once it was pointed out that somebody had violated longstanding norms here (or as @gabboman says, the "spiirt of the social contract of fedi") , they immediately apologized and took down the data they had scraped. And guess what? Those cases didn't lead to blow ups.

But in the cases I'm aware of where it did blow up, they the either said something that made it clear that they had intentionally not designing for informed, affirmative consent ... or made an intentional choice to ignore (or pushed back on) the initial feedback.

These repeated firestorms really are an unfortunate pattern but as I've said for quite a while it's going to keep happening until fedi influencers with big megaphones change their behavior.

• start repeatedly emphasizing that consent and resistance to surveillance capitalism are very important norms here.

• share and model best practices for how to avoid unintentionally violating norms -- including asking before releasing something (because it's not always obvious what will set off a firestorm) and listening to the feedback rather than dismissing it

It's frustrating because it's been over two years since I wrote https://thenexusofprivacy.net/consent-for-fediverse-developers/ and @deadsuperhero did a remix of it on We Distribute at https://wedistribute.org/2024/07/fediverse-privacy-and-consent/ In fact I think you might have even been at a #FediForum session (probably in 2024) where we discussed this! And yet, there really doesn't seem to be much interest from high-profile developers in getting the word out about this.

@evan

@smallcircles @gumnos @evan

This "fossbro" term really bothers me for some reason. What does that mean?

Is that somebody who shares most of, if not all of your values, and provides volunteer labour to give you platforms to express those values, but then makes something that doesn't initially seem like something you'd want to use so now you hate them and encourage everybody else to hate them too?

Because that sure is what it sounds like. Please correct me.

@spraoi @gumnos @evan

It is not a favorite term of mine too. I usually do not use it. But it is a term that is being used. Guess its explanation is similar to techbro "I can create all the tech I want", and not dealing with / caring for externalities.

@spraoi @smallcircles @gumnos @evan

These days (I hate to say “these days”, but I need to use it now), it seems to be fashionable to add “bro” to every group considered “harmful.” It often takes a particular demographic stereotype, usually white, straight men, who show a strong passion for a particular interest, and turns them into a caricature onto which a whole set of negative traits can be projected.

@hyblon @spraoi @gumnos @evan

True, though I think initially the words built on a genuine observed diversity or lack thereof, for gender choice. Where the "techbro" refered to a stereotypical tech solutionist, Silicon Valley mindset. Then extended to FOSSbro to refer similar mindset in different context.

But today the words are deliberately used, in online fights, in the way you say.

In the past I suggested using alternatives for similar often used gendered terminology, just because a simple rename would lead to a friendlier online environment. Like rename "reply guy" to "reply sigh", and "mansplaining" to "oversplaining".

@smallcircles @spraoi @gumnos @evan

Before we started internalizing the jargon from across the pond, we Italians had a habit of simply calling someone a “testa di cazzo,” roughly “dickhead.” It was neutral and inclusive: it could apply to anyone. We didn't need words like fascist, racist, homophobe, antivaxxer, Russian troll, or whatever else is trendy. Someone could simply be a dickhead. Nothing less, nothing more.